Didn't the left make a big deal about this "lie"?

[mdgator05]

Originally Posted by MichaelJoeWilliamson

Dave is exactly right;



http://www.bizpacreview.com/2013/01/...tradamus-15715

It is amazing how many on the right are trying to change the original comment by Romney so that it wouldn't be a lie.

If you bothered to read the thread, you would know that the quote was: "“I saw a story today that one of the great manufacturers in this state, Jeep, now owned by the Italians, is thinking of moving all production to China."

Nobody at the time denied that Jeep was going to build cars in China. They just stated that it was a lie to say they were moving all production to China, especially considering the fact that they were announcing expansion to their manufacturing in the US at the same time.

The attempt to change what Romney said is terribly intellectually dishonest. Maybe that should make you and Dave eligible for Too Hot lie of the year.

[gatorpa]

Originally Posted by fredsanford

Because intelligence gathering isn't always perfect.

Can I quote you when the ? of WMD's and Bush comes up again?

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Originally Posted by mdgator05

It is amazing how many on the right are trying to change the original comment by Romney so that it wouldn't be a lie.

If you bothered to read the thread, you would know that the quote was: "“I saw a story today that one of the great manufacturers in this state, Jeep, now owned by the Italians, is thinking of moving all production to China."

Nobody at the time denied that Jeep was going to build cars in China. They just stated that it was a lie to say they were moving all production to China, especially considering the fact that they were announcing expansion to their manufacturing in the US at the same time.

The attempt to change what Romney said is terribly intellectually dishonest. Maybe that should make you and Dave eligible for Too Hot lie of the year.

I always thought that Gator fans were better able to READ than other folks. Apparetnly that is just not the case;

Original Bloomberg story:

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/201...nd-climbs.html

"Fiat SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually make all of its models in that country, according to the head of both automakers’ operations in the region.

Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models atplants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. Manley referred to adding Jeep production sites rather than shifting output from North America to China."

Report from The Hill on Romney's speech in Defiance, Ohio:



Read more: http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas...#ixzz2IFEqLmxt
Quote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...n_2045988.html

Jeep announced they were reentering the Chinese market, which they suspended in 2009. That included building Jeeps in China.

Romney told a crowd in Ohio that Jeep (Fiat) was considering moving all production to China. Jeep responded by reiterating that the resumed production in China wasn't displacing jobs in the US and that they in fact intend to add jobs here too.

Jeep appears to be resuming production in China, as announced. I don't know the status of the increased production/employment here.

A lawyer might get Romney off be cause of his "thinking about" qualifier. Of course there's no support for that claim either, and Jeep's announcement that he was referring to was quite clear. But his intent appears to be to make people believe Jeep would be shutting down all factories here and replacing that output with Chinese plants. That's probably a bad thing.

Verdict: innocent of lying by technicality, morally guilty of misleading people into fearing for their jobs

Read more: http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas...#ixzz2IFFCqivl

Read more: http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas...#ixzz2Iorxi8X1

[mdgator05]

Originally Posted by MichaelJoeWilliamson

I always thought that Gator fans were better able to READ than other folks. Apparetnly that is just not the case;

Original Bloomberg story:

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/201...nd-climbs.html

"Fiat SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually make all of its models in that country, according to the head of both automakers’ operations in the region.

Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models atplants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. Manley referred to adding Jeep production sites rather than shifting output from North America to China."

Report from The Hill on Romney's speech in Defiance, Ohio:



Read more: http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas...#ixzz2IFEqLmxt
Quote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...n_2045988.html

Jeep announced they were reentering the Chinese market, which they suspended in 2009. That included building Jeeps in China.

Romney told a crowd in Ohio that Jeep (Fiat) was considering moving all production to China. Jeep responded by reiterating that the resumed production in China wasn't displacing jobs in the US and that they in fact intend to add jobs here too.

Jeep appears to be resuming production in China, as announced. I don't know the status of the increased production/employment here.

A lawyer might get Romney off be cause of his "thinking about" qualifier. Of course there's no support for that claim either, and Jeep's announcement that he was referring to was quite clear. But his intent appears to be to make people believe Jeep would be shutting down all factories here and replacing that output with Chinese plants. That's probably a bad thing.

Verdict: innocent of lying by technicality, morally guilty of misleading people into fearing for their jobs

Read more: http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas...#ixzz2IFFCqivl

Read more: http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas...#ixzz2Iorxi8X1

And they weren't considering moving all production to China. Thus the lie. I would accuse you of not being able to read and comprehend, but I think you perfectly know how intellectually dishonest you are being. As was explained earlier, building all models doesn't mean the same thing as all production. Building all models means they will make Wranglers, Patriots, Grand Cherokees, etc. in China. That is far different than all production being in China, as they will still make those models here too.

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by MichaelJoeWilliamson

I always thought that Gator fans were better able to READ than other folks. Apparetnly that is just not the case;

Original Bloomberg story:

http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/201...nd-climbs.html

"Fiat SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually make all of its models in that country, according to the head of both automakers’ operations in the region.

Chrysler currently builds all Jeep SUV models atplants in Michigan, Illinois and Ohio. Manley referred to adding Jeep production sites rather than shifting output from North America to China."

Report from The Hill on Romney's speech in Defiance, Ohio:



Read more: http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas...#ixzz2IFEqLmxt
Quote:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mobile...n_2045988.html

Jeep announced they were reentering the Chinese market, which they suspended in 2009. That included building Jeeps in China.

Romney told a crowd in Ohio that Jeep (Fiat) was considering moving all production to China. Jeep responded by reiterating that the resumed production in China wasn't displacing jobs in the US and that they in fact intend to add jobs here too.

Jeep appears to be resuming production in China, as announced. I don't know the status of the increased production/employment here.

A lawyer might get Romney off be cause of his "thinking about" qualifier. Of course there's no support for that claim either, and Jeep's announcement that he was referring to was quite clear. But his intent appears to be to make people believe Jeep would be shutting down all factories here and replacing that output with Chinese plants. That's probably a bad thing.

Verdict: innocent of lying by technicality, morally guilty of misleading people into fearing for their jobs

Read more: http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas...#ixzz2IFFCqivl

Read more: http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas...#ixzz2Iorxi8X1

We already addressed that once. Making some of each Chrysler model in China to sell in China is not the same thing as moving ALL production to China.

[gatorpa]

Originally Posted by rivergator

We already addressed that once. Making some of each Chrysler model in China to sell in China is not the same thing as moving ALL production to China.

Fiat SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually make all of its models in that country, according to the head of both automakers’ operations in the region

This is what Romney quoted from the article how is it a "lie"? He quoted an article from Bloomberg not some rt wing blogger. Now if the writer of the original article was wrong the problem lay with the writer, not Romney. It was only after Romney pointed it out that the automaker stepped back from the stance as posted in the article.

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by gatorpa

Fiat SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually make all of its models in that country, according to the head of both automakers’ operations in the region

This is what Romney quoted from the article how is it a "lie"? He quoted an article from Bloomberg not some rt wing blogger. Now if the writer of the original article was wrong the problem lay with the writer, not Romney. It was only after Romney pointed it out that the automaker stepped back from the stance as posted in the article.

you REALLY don't understand what I just explained in the previous post?

[mdgator05]

Originally Posted by gatorpa

Fiat SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually make all of its models in that country, according to the head of both automakers’ operations in the region

This is what Romney quoted from the article how is it a "lie"? He quoted an article from Bloomberg not some rt wing blogger. Now if the writer of the original article was wrong the problem lay with the writer, not Romney. It was only after Romney pointed it out that the automaker stepped back from the stance as posted in the article.

All production means that if Jeep sells 500,000 Grand Cherokees, 400,000 Wranglers, 300,000 Liberties, etc. , all 500,000 Grand Cherokees, 400,000 Wranglers, 300,000 Liberties, etc. are made in China. That is what Romney claimed they were considering.

All models being made in a country means that they will make some of each of the models in China. So, for example, they could make 100,000 Grand Cherokees, 50,000 Wranglers, and 75,000 Liberties, etc. in China. So while they make all models there, all production is not in China. This is what is happening.

[gatorpa]

Originally Posted by mdgator05

All production means that if Jeep sells 500,000 Grand Cherokees, 400,000 Wranglers, 300,000 Liberties, etc. , all 500,000 Grand Cherokees, 400,000 Wranglers, 300,000 Liberties, etc. are made in China. That is what Romney claimed they were considering.

All models being made in a country means that they will make some of each of the models in China. So, for example, they could make 100,000 Grand Cherokees, 50,000 Wranglers, and 75,000 Liberties, etc. in China. So while they make all models there, all production is not in China. This is what is happening.

All in the interpretation of the article, I understand how you are reading it, it is just as plausible that one could read it that ALL vehicles were to be produced there, or that all "types" vehicles would be produced there. But much easier to say "Romeny was lying", fits the hater narrative better. Same difference as the slam on Obama's famous "you did not build that". No?

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Distinctions without differences.

[mdgator05]

Originally Posted by gatorpa

All in the interpretation of the article, I understand how you are reading it, it is just as plausible that one could read it that ALL vehicles were to be produced there, or that all "types" vehicles would be produced there. But much easier to say "Romeny was lying", fits the hater narrative better. Same difference as the slam on Obama's famous "you did not build that". No?

That only functions if you have a fairly weak understanding of the words being used in the statement and after withdrawing it from the context of the remarks. It isn't interpretation. It is knowing what words mean.

He was attempting to scare workers in Ohio that they would lose their jobs. He stated that Jeep was considering moving all production to China. He lied. Trying to cover for it diminishes all those involved in attempting to cover for it.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

My goodness

"Fiat SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually make ALL OF ITS models in that country, according to the head of both automakers’ operations in the region.

[mdgator05]

Originally Posted by MichaelJoeWilliamson

My goodness

"Fiat SpA (F), majority owner of Chrysler Group LLC, plans to return Jeep output to China and may eventually make ALL OF ITS models in that country, according to the head of both automakers’ operations in the region.

"All of its models." Basic reading comprehension. A model is a type of car. A Grand Cherokee is a car model.

Very basic reading comprehension here: all models means that they will make the Grand Cherokee, Patriot, Wrangler, Liberty, Cherokee, etc. in China. It does not mean they will make all of the individual cars in China. In fact, they are going to make Grand Cherokees in both the US and China.

You should quit digging as you are already pretty deep in the hole here.

[rivergator]

From Politifact, again:

Bloomberg reported on Oct. 22 that the company was planning to restart production of Jeeps in China. The entirety of the Bloomberg report made it clear that Chrysler was considering expansion in China, not shuttering American production.

But one conservative news outlet seized on the report’s opening lines. The Washington Examiner’s Paul Bedard blogged on Oct. 25 about the Bloomberg story and incorrectly wrote that Jeep was "considering giving up on the United States and shifting production to China," a move that would "crash the economy in towns like Toledo, Ohio … ." The conservative Drudge Report then linked to Bedard’s post under the headline, "Jeep eyes shifting production to China."

Within hours, Chrysler spokesman Gualberto Ranieri responded on Chrysler’s company blog.

"Let’s set the record straight: Jeep has no intention of shifting production of its Jeep models out of North America to China," Ranieri wrote, adding, "A careful and unbiased reading of the Bloomberg take would have saved unnecessary fantasies and extravagant comments."

But later that night at a campaign stop in Defiance, Ohio, Romney added a new line to his stump speech:

"I saw a story today, that one of the great manufacturers in this state, Jeep, now owned by the Italians, is thinking of moving all production to China," he said, to boos from the audience. "I will fight for every good job in America. I’m going to fight to make sure trade is fair, and if it’s fair, America will win."

Romney’s campaign didn’t retreat, though. It doubled down with a TV ad for Ohio voters that weekend:

"Who will do more for the auto industry? Not Barack Obama," the ad began, adding, "Obama took GM and Chrysler into bankruptcy and sold Chrysler to Italians who are going to build Jeeps in China. Mitt Romney will fight for every American job." A similar radio ad soon followed.

That in turn prompted another unqualified denial, this time from Chrysler Chairman and CEO Sergio Marchionne, who said Jeep assembly lines "will remain in operation in the United States and will constitute the backbone of the brand. It is inaccurate to suggest anything different."

PolitiFact and other fact-checkers weighed in and said the ad was inaccurate. PolitiFact rated it Pants on Fire because it "strings together facts in a way that presents an wholly inaccurate picture."

Factcheck.org said Romney’s speech was "flat wrong" and the ad was misleading. The Washington Post’s Fact Checker gave the ad four Pinocchios, saying, "This ad shows that we have entered the final, desperate week of the campaign."

[mdgator05]

A good description of what a car model is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_model

An automobile model (or car model or model of car, and typically abbreviated to just "model") is a particular brand of vehicle sold under a marque by a manufacturer, usually within a range of models, usually of different sizes or capabilities.

So they will produce all of their brands under the marque of the Jeep manufacturer. That does not mean, as Romney stated, all production is being considered for a move to China. You realize that most cars models have multiple assembly plants to serve different regions right?

Does this help you better understand the difference?

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by mdgator05

A good description of what a car model is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_model



So they will produce all of their brands under the marque of the Jeep manufacturer. That does not mean, as Romney stated, all production is being considered for a move to China. You realize that most cars models have multiple assembly plants to serve different regions right?

Does this help you better understand the difference?

I used the Budweiser example before. Anheuser Busch may make all of its styles of beer in the Jax brewery. But that doesn't mean every Bud and Bud Light in the world is made there.

[malligator]

Originally Posted by mdgator05

"All of its models." Basic reading comprehension. A model is a type of car. A Grand Cherokee is a car model.

Very basic reading comprehension here: all models means that they will make the Grand Cherokee, Patriot, Wrangler, Liberty, Cherokee, etc. in China. It does not mean they will make all of the individual cars in China. In fact, they are going to make Grand Cherokees in both the US and China.

You should quit digging as you are already pretty deep in the hole here.

And Jeep is the brand--not a model. It could be read multiple ways, no matter how much you want it to be one.

[mdgator05]

Originally Posted by malligator

And Jeep is the brand--not a model. It could be read multiple ways, no matter how much you want it to be one.

No it really can't. Jeep is the marque brand. The Liberty, Patriot, Grand Cherokee, and Cherokee are the models. They are considering producing each of those models in China. Romney said that they were considering moving all production to China. That is not true. Regardless of how much you want it to be true.

[malligator]

Yes, it really can and you're being obtuse for not admitting it. I don't really care. Romney is done and being swept under the rug so it's moot. I'm just appalled by your unwarranted condesention to other posters simply due to your political bias.

[mdgator05]

Originally Posted by malligator

Yes, it really can and you're being obtuse for not admitting it. I don't really care. Romney is done and being swept under the rug so it's moot. I'm just appalled by your unwarranted condesention to other posters simply due to your political bias.

And I'm appalled by how purposefully blind your political bias has made you.

A car model is a well established enough concept that it is regularly used in branding classes as an example. And yet, purely for political reasons, we have people here completely misunderstanding the word "model."

Once again, making a car model in a country doesn't mean that all of the production for that model is in that country. Even if Mitt Romney tried to say so.