Some Numbers

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Every great civilization in history has fallen. To the detriment of mankind. The savagery of the middle ages was not "bad luck." It was brought on by the fall of the Grecian, Arabic and Roman Empires.

(yes, I know these were not all simultaneous.)

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Originally Posted by gator996

I don't hate capitalism...

...but if you have to practice with the "competitive advantage" that some groups
have operated with in this country's history...

...denying civil rights, denying access to capital, biased corrupt control of the legal system, biased corrupt control of the legislative process, biased corrupt control of the judicial system, biased corrupt control of law enforcement...


Who again are the "parasites"?

At its root, capitalism is a win win for humans. A business that harms it customers will not be in business for long. Businesses are not the cause of problems in mankind. Wealth creation has been a great boon to mankind.

Government have caused far more human suffering and death than any single business, or group of businesses. History teaches us this. Yet we ignore it at our own pearl.

[g8trjax]

Originally Posted by gator996

"blew"???

Rebuilding the infrastructure of NY & NJ is wasting money?

Strictly from an economic perspective, that area would warrant strategic rebuilding more than say the Mississippi or Alabam coastlines...

Always a good reason to SPEND MORE.

[gator996]

Originally Posted by MichaelJoeWilliamson

At its root, capitalism is a win win for humans. A business that harms it customers will not be in business for long. Businesses are not the cause of problems in mankind. Wealth creation has been a great boon to mankind.

Government have caused far more human suffering and death than any single business, or group of businesses. History teaches us this. Yet we ignore it at our own pearl.

Your first paragraph has been proven to be false.

You must not believe what Alan Greenspan has admitted to...

A business will harm its customers if the immediate payoff outweighs the value of being an ongoing concern...

...hell, they'll do it if they get to take the "wins" and the public (their customers) take the losses...

[corpgator]

Originally Posted by MichaelJoeWilliamson

At its root, capitalism is a win win for humans. A business that harms it customers will not be in business for long. Businesses are not the cause of problems in mankind. Wealth creation has been a great boon to mankind.

Government have caused far more human suffering and death than any single business, or group of businesses. History teaches us this. Yet we ignore it at our own pearl.

How about the entire oil industry? Or I guess oil spills harm no one.

What about the airline industry? They don't necessarily harm their customers, but they treat them like crap.

How about all of the banks that screwed us over? All still in business.

[wgbgator]

Capitalism has been a boon for the productive capacity of man, not so much of a boon for creating abundance or dignity for all.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Originally Posted by gator996

Your first paragraph has been proven to be false.

No

A business will harm its customers if the immediate payoff outweighs the value of being an ongoing concern...

Some will. They just don't seem to stay in business long.

[Burke]

People deal by trade or by force.

Dealing by trade is capitalism.

Every alternative to capitalism is force.

Somebody exploiting productive people somehow.

All the criticisms of capitalism are just rationalizations for doing so.

You may as well be trying to justify armed robbery.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Originally Posted by Burke

You may as well be trying to justify armed robbery.

Government bootlickers have become experts at this.

"But, but, but, it's not armed robbery when the government does it! It's for your own good! It's a social contract thing, you wouldn't understand!"

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by Burke

People deal by trade or by force.

Dealing by trade is capitalism.
Every alternative to capitalism is force.

Somebody exploiting productive people somehow.

All the criticisms of capitalism are just rationalizations for doing so.

You may as well be trying to justify armed robbery.

People traded before capitalism, and they will trade after capitalism.

[JerseyGator01]

Any serious similarities between many US industries and capitalism these days is purely coincidental.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Originally Posted by corpgator

How about the entire oil industry? Or I guess oil spills harm no one.

What about the airline industry? They don't necessarily harm their customers, but they treat them like crap.

How about all of the banks that screwed us over? All still in business.

In regards to airlines and oil, I should have said "intentionally harms." That is what I meant. But even if a company unintentionally harms people often, they will also not be in business long.

Don't know what you mean by bankers. Bankers were giving us what we supposedly wanted; mortgages without money down and without regard of the ability to repay.

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

Capitalism has been a boon for the productive capacity of man, not so much of a boon for creating abundance or dignity for all.

Untrue.

Ask yourself this; are humans better of now compared to 100 years ago? Two hundred? Three hundred?

By many objective measures, human are better off now than we have ever been.

What measures you ask?

Health
Longevity
Civil Liberties
Wealth

In three of those four, we can point directly to capitalism for the improvement. I think one can also make a good case that the people in a wealthy, capitalist society have a better chance for increased civil liberties than poor nations.

Why are we healthier, live longer (including dying due to violence as well as disease) and have more wealth? We are due to the efforts of the people that created and ran those evil pharmaceutical companies and those evil improvements in medicine and those evil energy companies and those evil banks.

The same natural resources were present in medieval times as today. Why are we better off today? Why do we have more money?

Evil Capitalism

[Burke]

If a maid scratches her hand and gets a bad infection today, she can get an antibiotic and be cured. A hundred years ago, the richest, most powerful man in the world with the same problem would have likely died.

Poor people are taught by Marxists to look at the rich as if the rich were exploiting them somehow. The fact is that the poor benefit from the rich far more in relation to their ability than the rich benefit from the poor.

The maids did not create the wonders of the modern world. The rich were far more responsible.

Blacks in America are taught that they are the victims of whites. But if the whites here all suddenly disappeared, what would the lives of the Blacks be like? On the other hand, if all the Blacks here suddenly disappeared, what would the lives of the whites be like?

If you were a plumber, would you want to go into business in a ghetto where they had lots of plumbing problems but little money to pay to fix them or in a suburb filled with millionaires, most of whom don't care what it costs to get a busted pipe fixed. They just want it done NOW.

The fact is that other productive people make your work far more valuable because you can trade with them. And the richer they are, the more your labor is worth. That's because the presence of rich people competing for your services increases the demand side of the supply and demand curves.

Marxism, the claim that the poor are victimized by the rich in a capitalist society, is a monstrous lie.

Instead of looking at the rich with envy and hatred because they don't live like them, the poor here should be looking at the people in Haitii and Somalia and thanking the rich because they aren't living like that.

Because thats the way it really is.

Maids today mostly just swing brooms, etc. and do the things maids have been doing for thousands of years. It's the evil, greedy rich who have made their lives infinitely better.

Bill Gates working in his own self-interest and getting filthy rich in the process has done more for mankind than all the Mother Theresa's in history combined.