New York Has Gun Deal, With Focus on Mental Ills

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by 108

do you think the black market is a justifiable excuse not to have common sense gun laws?

I don't think Cuomo's legislation is very reasonable at all. It was a typical look at me moment. This is more about liberals jumping on an agenda they're forever had and were waiting for the right time to do it.

[mdgator05]

Originally Posted by gatorman_07732

There will be more people seeking to purchase guns through the black market and that's a fact. You will have less people obeying the law as a result of this legislation thereby creating more criminals. The government has never been effective in controlling the black market for anything. This is bad legislation all the way around and I suspect will be challenged.

Governments have often controlled black markets. For example, you can't go out on the black market and purchase a nuclear weapon as a private citizen in the US. Why not? Do you think it is a lack of qualified providers? A lack of demand? Or is it just a lack of demand due to the punishments associated with such an action? The punishments serve both as a direct demand reduction and a mechanism by which the price is exponentially increased

Now the question becomes, what is the cost/benefit of perfect control over the market? That is a legitimate question that has often been answered by governments implicitly allowing some low level functioning of a black market due to the costs of completely eliminating the market.

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by mdgator05

Governments have often controlled black markets. For example, you can't go out on the black market and purchase a nuclear weapon as a private citizen in the US. Why not? Do you think it is a lack of qualified providers? A lack of demand? Or is it just a lack of demand due to the punishments associated with such an action? The punishments serve both as a direct demand reduction and a mechanism by which the price is exponentially increased

Now the question becomes, what is the cost/benefit of perfect control over the market? That is a legitimate question that has often been answered by governments implicitly allowing some low level functioning of a black market due to the costs of completely eliminating the market.

You certainly went to the extreme considering nuclear weapons have never bee legal in the first place. I can see way it took you so long to reply because you couldn't thing of anything legitimate.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by bluelang

Semiauto pistols as assault weapons? Stupid.

I'd be in favor of banning concealed carry of semiautos, I guess. I mean, not strongly in favor of it, but.. whatever. The whole thing is stupid and a waste of time.

Why are you against concealed carry? only people who go through the crap get a CC license will be harmed by banning it.

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Why are you against concealed carry? only people who go through the crap get a CC license will be harmed by banning it.

I could never figure out how people are against that with the extensive vetting that thats required.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by gatorman_07732

I could never figure out how people are against that with the extensive vetting that thats required.

it depends on the states, for instance here in Alabama you don't have to have any training what so ever, just 21 with no violent crime (even simple assault) or felonies on your record and you get the CCL.

I've been blasted by even my own gun group for advocating a 50 state wide test kind of like the Drivers license. Everyone must pass a written test, shooting test, and background along with a mental evaluation every four years. With that being done that license is valid in all 50 states thus getting rid of a lot of those stupid reciprocating laws and the law abeiting citizens will be better trained with a weapon than those who just have to be 21

[mdgator05]

Originally Posted by gatorman_07732

You certainly went to the extreme considering nuclear weapons have never bee legal in the first place. I can see way it took you so long to reply because you couldn't thing of anything legitimate.

What does former legality have to do with a market being a black market? Would you argue the trade of loose nuclear material is not a black market effectively controlled by the government?

The extremes (also see nuclear submarines, large scale explosives, tanks, human organs, etc.) are where the government has decided that the cost of completely controlling a black market are outweighed by the benefits. However, numerous black markets are reduced in scope by the government's actions.

As for why it took so long, I had work to do. Maybe you shouldn't speculate as to what others are doing. I can see why you wouldn't want to focus on the fact that your statement was proven false though.

[malligator]

Originally Posted by 108

do you think the black market is a justifiable excuse not to have common sense gun laws?

I think you mean unconstitutional gun laws.

[northgagator]

Originally Posted by 108

i mean, since some people don't follow traffic laws, it means we shouldn't have any traffic laws right?

Real simple solution. Ban cars.

[northgagator]

Originally Posted by gatorman_07732

I could never figure out how people are against that with the extensive vetting that thats required.

How many thugs, hit men, robbers, gangbangers have a legally owned during arm and a concealed carry permit?

[GatorNorth]

Originally Posted by gatorman_07732

I don't think Cuomo's legislation is very reasonable at all. It was a typical look at me moment. This is more about liberals jumping on an agenda they're forever had and were waiting for the right time to do it.

Because both parties aren't chock full of political opportunistic politicos pushing an agenda?

[northgagator]

Originally Posted by Lawdog88

Those "military style features" are killers. Eliminate at least one of them, and presto: with one swift jerk of the knee, the firearms become incapable of killing a human.

This is a joke, as is the legislation.

Law, what are the odds that the NRA or gun manufactures will attempt to file an injunction to keep this bill from going into effect?

Also, since this bill zeros in on semi automatic!s, then doesn't that make the bill in conflict with the 14th amendment's equal protection clause (semi vs bolt or revolver)?

[egator1245]

this law was written, debated, and passed behind closed doors and immediately signed by
cuomo. Just love the way the liberals operate and govern. Kind of sounds like obama and the ACA.

[gator996]

Originally Posted by gatorman_07732

I don't think Cuomo's legislation is very reasonable at all. It was a typical look at me moment. This is more about liberals jumping on an agenda they're forever had and were waiting for the right time to do it.

What would be "reasonable" to you?

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by gator996

What would be "reasonable" to you?

If it was me the whole legislation would be revolved around mental health, and not taking away from those who obey they laws.

[gator996]

But where has funding for that gone?

Conservatives have preferred to build more jails and decrease social services like mental health aide...

Is this not a place where your conservatives principles don't exactly agree with your policy belief?

How are you addressing mental health needs when your busy shrinking govt and cutting out the funding for social services?

[MichaelJoeWilliamson]

Originally Posted by 108

... not to have common sense gun laws?

Which new gun laws are common sense and why?

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by gator996

But where has funding for that gone?

Conservatives have preferred to build more jails and decrease social services like mental health aide...

Is this not a place where your conservatives principles don't exactly agree with your policy belief?

How are you addressing mental health needs when your busy shrinking govt and cutting out the funding for social services?

And how much has the central government been bolstered since the shut down of all those mental facilities? Those resources have been diverted to other area plus some. The federal government has grown like a big fat pig.

[gator996]

Still arguing about too much spending?

OK, you want a mental health focus here....

Where's the money going to come from for this new initiative?

Cut other programs? Which ones?

Fund Obamacare and strike the "NRA" language from the law?
Hmmm, that might work...

Might be more productive than simply bitchin about a problem and not doing anything to fix it....

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by gator996

Still arguing about too much spending?

OK, you want a mental health focus here....

Where's the money going to come from for this new initiative?

Cut other programs? Which ones?

Fund Obamacare and strike the "NRA" language from the law?
Hmmm, that might work...

Might be more productive than simply bitchin about a problem and not doing anything to fix it....

I'd scale the EPA way way back
Here is what I'd eliminate: Energy, Commerce, Interior, Education, and Housing and Urban Development and this is for starters.
Oh yeah, Obamacare - see ya