I think even MadGator will concede....

[NorthCaptivaGator]

Originally Posted by madgator

extremely misleading stat. Walker was one of the worst I have seen as a Gator point guard in terms of both setting up team mates and giving passes that were received in the "right spots" for shot rhythm.

a very basic but extremely important fine point.

way too often Walker's passes would be caught at the knees or off and high to a side or on the defender side.

as was stated, Walker played a ton of minutes and handled the ball a whole bunch to only average 4.3 assists per game for his 3 year time as the primary point guard while averaging 2.33 turnovers during that same time.

He is the career leader in assists here, in 3 years at the point guard position, those 4.3 /game are better than anybody else who has ever played the position here over the same time frame, some of those passes must have somehow found there way in to a shooters hands

BTW, Scotty is really playing well in every aspect of the game other than against pressure defense, if we figure that out as a team we have a real good shot

[madgator]

Originally Posted by NorthCaptivaGator

He is the career leader in assists here, in 3 years at the point guard position, those 4.3 /game are better than anybody else who has ever played the position here over the same time frame, some of those passes must have somehow found there way in to a shooters hands

BTW, Scotty is really playing well in every aspect of the game other than against pressure defense, if we figure that out as a team we have a real good shot

Walker played enough PG his freshman year to average almost 3 assists per game. I said "primary" PG.

mind you, it took Walker 4 years to break a record that was held by a guy who played only 2.

if Taureen Green had stayed for a fourth year and added another 1200-1300 minutes played he would be ahead of Walker's totals.

when you play 4,400 career minutes, you better walk away with a couple of records......other than minutes played

[NorthCaptivaGator]

Originally Posted by madgator

Walker played enough PG his freshman year to average almost 3 assists per game. I said "primary" PG.

mind you, it took Walker 4 years to break a record that was held by a guy who played only 2.

if Taureen Green had stayed for a fourth year and added another 1200-1300 minutes played he would be ahead of Walker's totals.

when you play 4,400 career minutes, you better walk away with a couple of records......other than minutes played

Walker played three years at point, Cdlathes was the point guard in Walker's freshman year and had a boatload of assists Walker played the two

Where does Walker stand in career assists per game stats at UF?

[tampajack1]

Originally Posted by NorthCaptivaGator

Walker played three years at point, Cdlathes was the point guard in Walker's freshman year and had a boatload of assists Walker played the two

Where does Walker stand in career assists per game stats at UF?

If Walker could have passed to Walker, he would have broken the all-time assist record at UF by a mile. Unfortunately for Erv, he certainly holds the UF record for most wide open shots missed by players on the receiving end of his passes.

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by tampajack1

If Walker could have passed to Walker, he would have broken the all-time assist record at UF by a mile. Unfortunately for Erv, he certainly holds the UF record for most wide open shots missed by players on the receiving end of his passes.

Do you have any evidence to back up this conjecture? I doubt very much that any part of it is true. That is I doubt:

1. E.Walker passed to very many wide open teammates who missed shots.

2. Teammates missed shots at a higher percentage after passes from E.Walker than say from T.Green, Calathes, etc.

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by madgator

mind you, it took Walker 4 years to break a record that was held by a guy who played only 2.

This ignores the fact that he also beat the mark of every player who was at uf for all 4 years.

That's pretty remarkable for player who supposedly lacked the ability to properly pass the ball.

[NorthCaptivaGator]

Originally Posted by madgator

Walker played enough PG his freshman year to average almost 3 assists per game. I said "primary" PG.

mind you, it took Walker 4 years to break a record that was held by a guy who played only 2.

if Taureen Green had stayed for a fourth year and added another 1200-1300 minutes played he would be ahead of Walker's totals.

when you play 4,400 career minutes, you better walk away with a couple of records......other than minutes played

Walker is currently 10th all time in assists per game here at the University of Florida, having averaged 3.8 for his career. Take out his Freshman year, when he played the two and he is second, at 4.6 behind only Nick Calathes who averaged 6.28 assists per game in his two years at UF, the second of which he played with Erving Walker at the two. So, the statistics point out that Erving Walker averaged more assists per game as a starting point guard than guys like Ronnie Montgomery (3.87) Vernon Delancy (4.18) Eddie Shannon (4.25) and Taureen Green (3.58). By the way Ronnie Williams played 3900 mins and Eddie Shannon 3600.

So again, the facts contradict your opinion.

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by NorthCaptivaGator

Walker is currently 10th all time in assists per game here at the University of Florida, having averaged 3.8 for his career. Take out his Freshman year, when he played the two and he is second, at 4.6 behind only Nick Calathes who averaged 6.28 assists per game in his two years at UF, the second of which he played with Erving Walker at the two. So, the statistics point out that Erving Walker averaged more assists per game as a starting point guard than guys like Ronnie Montgomery (3.87) Vernon Delancy (4.18) Eddie Shannon (4.25) and Taureen Green (3.58). By the way Ronnie Williams played 3900 mins and Eddie Shannon 3600.

So again, the facts contradict your opinion.

Well played, sir.

[tommyuf21]

There's only one statistic that they are interested in; 5'8". In their minds, this is a not a game for someone that size and The University of Florida should never have to stoop so low as to have someone that short suit up for the Gators. They will never objectively look at him and assess his contributions in any way whatsoever, because in their minds, someone like him doesn't deserve an opportunity to play big boy ball.

[madgator]

Originally Posted by tommyuf21

There's only one statistic that they are interested in; 5'8". In their minds, this is a not a game for someone that size and The University of Florida should never have to stoop so low as to have someone that short suit up for the Gators. They will never objectively look at him and assess his contributions in any way whatsoever, because in their minds, someone like him doesn't deserve an opportunity to play big boy ball.

Absolutely ridiculous

[madgator]

Originally Posted by NorthCaptivaGator

Walker is currently 10th all time in assists per game here at the University of Florida, having averaged 3.8 for his career. Take out his Freshman year, when he played the two and he is second, at 4.6 behind only Nick Calathes who averaged 6.28 assists per game in his two years at UF, the second of which he played with Erving Walker at the two. So, the statistics point out that Erving Walker averaged more assists per game as a starting point guard than guys like Ronnie Montgomery (3.87) Vernon Delancy (4.18) Eddie Shannon (4.25) and Taureen Green (3.58). By the way Ronnie Williams played 3900 mins and Eddie Shannon 3600.

So again, the facts contradict your opinion.

let's dig a little deeper


Erving Walker played with much better surrounding talent than Eddie Shannon, Delancy, Williams, and Montgomery.....and really it's not even near comparable.

yet, despite playing more minutes and having better talent. By your calculations Walker could only average about a half of an assist more per game (taking only into account his peak statistics mind you) than all the players you named. And averaging about equal to or below all those players on a pure a/min basis for a career.

Shannon for example played 2 guard his junior year behind Jason Williams.

so there you go.....Walker's cumulative stats are not really as comparitively impressive when you examine all factors.

[NorthCaptivaGator]

Originally Posted by madgator

let's dig a little deeper

Erving Walker played with much better surrounding talent than Eddie Shannon, Delancy, Williams, and Montgomery.....and really it's not even near comparable.

yet, despite playing more minutes and having better talent. By your calculations Walker could only average about a half of an assist more per game (taking only into account his peak statistics mind you) than all the players you named. And averaging about equal to or below all those players on a pure a/min basis for a career.

Shannon for example played 2 guard his junior year behind Jason Williams.

so there you go.....Walker's cumulative stats are not really as comparitively impressive when you examine all factors.

Second all-time career assists per game as a starting point guard. More than Taurean Green who played with the best talent in school history. End of discussion

[madgator]

how many less career minutes?

give green another season and another 6 minutes a game for his freshman year.

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by madgator

let's dig a little deeper


Erving Walker played with much better surrounding talent than Eddie Shannon, Delancy, Williams, and Montgomery.....and really it's not even near comparable.

yet, despite playing more minutes and having better talent. By your calculations Walker could only average about a half of an assist more per game (taking only into account his peak statistics mind you) than all the players you named. And averaging about equal to or below all those players on a pure a/min basis for a career.

Shannon for example played 2 guard his junior year behind Jason Williams.

so there you go.....Walker's cumulative stats are not really as comparitively impressive when you examine all factors.

This is where you lose me, and prove yourself to be so backed into a corner that you fail to be objective.
You were just presented with information that shows Erv not only to be the all-time assist leader, but also among the best on a per-game basis.
Rather than acknowledge this, you try to undercut it as "not really as comparatively impressive". Do you realize how absurd that sounds?
I have acknowledged Erv's many faults, and recognize that a fair amount of your observations are correct.
But--- when in the face of facts and feats--- your default position is some version of, "well, that doesn't impress me"... you lose credibility in the debate.
It simply defies logic that a "poor passer" could tally the most assists in school history and average a comparatively high number of assists per game . . . all while also carrying a scoring role/burden.
You can easily make a case that he was a defensive liability or was too often reckless with ball, but instead --- you seem to argue against logic, facts, reason and statistics.

[madgator]

Originally Posted by akaGatorhoops

This is where you lose me, and prove yourself to be so backed into a corner that you fail to be objective.
You were just presented with information that shows Erv not only to be the all-time assist leader, but also among the best on a per-game basis.
Rather than acknowledge this, you try to undercut it as "not really as comparatively impressive". Do you realize how absurd that sounds?
I have acknowledged Erv's many faults, and recognize that a fair amount of your observations are correct.
But--- when in the face of facts and feats--- your default position is some version of, "well, that doesn't impress me"... you lose credibility in the debate.
It simply defies logic that a "poor passer" could tally the most assists in school history and average a comparatively high number of assists per game . . . all while also carrying a scoring role/burden.
You can easily make a case that he was a defensive liability or was too often reckless with ball, but instead --- you seem to argue against logic, facts, reason and statistics.

so the surrounding talent of those players is not a relevant factor?

the overall talent of the competition (particularly that in the SEC, or the bulk of the schedule) is also not relevant?

no doubt in mind mind that the SEC was a much tougher basketball conference from top to bottom in the '80s and '90s than it is today.

SEC has probably been at it's absolute weakest over the past 5 years over say a 20-30 year sample.

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by madgator

how many less career minutes?

give green another season and another 6 minutes a game for his freshman year.

I do not have the figures, but green played a lot of minutes.

An additional year is rather irrelevant to a per-game discussion. Per the provided stats, Erv averaged more assists per game than green --- who, in my opinion was the best pg to ever wear a gator uniform.
TG also happened to have some pretty good teammates, so that argument is out.
So again, you are faced with the difficult task of explaining how a "poor passer" exceeded the personal accomplishments of some terrific players.
And seeing that "NorthCaptive" narrowed this down to a per-game analysis, and also provided TG as a comparison--- you are denied the crutch of "he played 4 years" or "he had a lot of talent".

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by madgator

so the surrounding talent of those players is not a relevant factor?

the overall talent of the competition (particularly that in the SEC, or the bulk of the schedule) is also not relevant?

no doubt in mind mind that the SEC was a much tougher basketball conference from top to bottom in the '80s and '90s than it is today.

SEC has probably been at it's absolute weakest over the past 5 years over say a 20-30 year sample.

See my above post and explain the TG comparison.

[madgator]

Originally Posted by akaGatorhoops

I do not have the figures, but green played a lot of minutes.

An additional year is rather irrelevant to a per-game discussion. Per the provided stats, Erv averaged more assists per game than green --- who, in my opinion was the best pg to ever wear a gator uniform.
TG also happened to have some pretty good teammates, so that argument is out.
So again, you are faced with the difficult task of explaining how a "poor passer" exceeded the personal accomplishments of some terrific players.
And seeing that "NorthCaptive" narrowed this down to a per-game analysis, and also provided TG as a comparison--- you are denied the crutch of "he played 4 years" or "he had a lot of talent".

he was also cherry picking only the prime years of walkers career......I mentioned that Eddie Shannon basically lost a prime year at PG with jason williams coming in.

if you take the career averages in their entirity, walkers per minute average is below all the guys he mentioned including Green

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by madgator

he was also cherry picking only the prime years of walkers career......I mentioned that Eddie Shannon basically lost a prime year at PG with jason williams coming in.

if you take the career averages in their entirity, walkers per minute average is below all the guys he mentioned including Green

no, he was not "cherry picking". you are manipulating the discussion.
he picked the years during which Erv was the starting pg.

again... how do you explain that, as pg, a "poor passer" accounted for more assists per game than did TG?

[rserina]

You guys are going to be arguing about this in a nursing home one day.