So the government that can't do anything right, ever, can somehow manufacture all of these elaborate conspiracies, pull them off nearly flawlessly time and again, and keep them secret?
We sent the best trained people we have after Bin Laden and we only crashed a helicopter which handed top secret into to the Chinese and had Stone Cold Steve Austin tweeting about it before they even dumped the body. That's not to take away from the bravery of those who went and the operation did it's ultimate job so total props, but the lynchpin of the CT movement is based a what is clearly a fallacy, the almost superhuman precision, secrecy and capability of a government that clearly has none of those things.
If this was a missing person's case like we saw in the Anthony case, that dad would be the prime suspect following that statement. Laughing while walking up to the podium after his kid was murdered in an elementary school and then putting on one of the worst performances I've ever seen after stepping up to the microphone. Forget all of the other stuff in that video, his reaction is creepy beyond words.
Oh, and his daughter is reportedly not in any of the class pictures either.
If his daughter wasn't in the class, don't you think other parents might be a tad suspicious?
And creepy doesn't equal conspiracy, this is the part that makes it so hard to argue with CTs. Essentially they ask you to prove a negative, in this case "that guy looks creepy and acts weird" so prove that doesn't prove a conspiracy. It's a bizarre argument and not one that can ever be "won" - it's like asking to prove there isn't a God, or prove that aliens aren't here.
This is why CTs thrive and in a sense is the smarts of their creators, they don't have to be right because they can never truly be proven wrong, no matter how outlandish they are, how little evidence to support them they provide, and how long it goes without any of the mutitudes of required conspirators coming forward to admit their complicity or provide corroborating evidence.
Including debunking the page set up "too early" in your previous post. Or am I misreading what you're saying?
I think he's being tricksy.
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"The things we admire in men, kindness and generosity, openess, honesty, understanding and feeling, are the concomitants of failure in our system. And those traits we detest, sharpness, greed, acquisitiveness, meaness, egotism and self-interest, are the traits of success."
If his daughter wasn't in the class, don't you think other parents might be a tad suspicious?
And creepy doesn't equal conspiracy, this is the part that makes it so hard to argue with CTs. Essentially they ask you to prove a negative, in this case "that guy looks creepy and acts weird" so prove that doesn't prove a conspiracy. It's a bizarre argument and not one that can ever be "won" - it's like asking to prove there isn't a God, or prove that aliens aren't here.
This is why CTs thrive and in a sense is the smarts of their creators, they don't have to be right because they can never truly be proven wrong, no matter how outlandish they are, how little evidence to support them they provide, and how long it goes without any of the mutitudes of required conspirators coming forward to admit their complicity or provide corroborating evidence.
You're free to think that this was an actual cut-and-dry shooting if you'd like to but I think there's plenty of evidence to suggest that we don't know everything.
And I think the parents we've heard from being huge gun control advocates only adds to it. Weren't there supposedly some kids that survived? Why haven't we heard from their parents? Why have we only heard from the select-few hardcore gun control advocates? If there actually were no survivors, the efficiency of an attack like that is beyond what some 20 year old kid could carry out.
The CIA were going to pose as Cuban terrorists in order to get us to buy-in to a war against Cuba. No conspiracy, fact. JFK was the president that stopped it. The CIA isn't above doing something like this if the president believes a political agenda can be achieved. It's disgusting and beyond the realm of comprehension for you and I, but government whether it's a democracy or dictatorship is evil by nature.
Something fishy about the medical examiner? That would be news. Remember Moe, Curly, and Larry who did the autopsy on JFK? The guy who did the autopsy on Vince Foster didn't take any x-rays because the machine "wasn't working." Ha ha ha ha. No need to borrow one or fix it or whatever, since Foster was a nobody.
Nobodies like JFK, Foster, etc. are entitled to nothing but sham autopsies at best.
__________________ It takes a lot of time to be a genius, you have to sit around so much doing nothing. – Gertrude Stein
A covert operation is never "nearly flawless." As legendary former CIA director Allen Dulles wrote in his book on the subject, something always goes wrong. But the operation still works because people don't notice what went wrong or don't realize what it is that they see. The JFK assassination was sloppy in its execution and cover-up (to cite one example of pure stupidity, a CIA agent caught breaking into a safe of the House Select Committee on Assassinations in an attempt to tamper with evidence). But the cover-up still works 50 years later.
As for being kept "secret," which major covert operations are still secret? People (specifically former CIA agents or operatives) have talked about helping to off JFK, and the evidence in the case backs them up. Moreover, a majority of Americans believe there was indeed a conspiracy. Although it's still hard, without a real investigation, to pinpoint specific agencies or individuals as to their culpability, as far as it being a government conspiracy where is the "secret"?
9/11? The evidence for government complicity is there for anyone to see if they would look and take off their tinfoil hats (i.e. stop blindly believing the official conspiracy theory). And it was pretty sloppy in various ways (e.g. the military unable to get its story straight, to the point that the 9/11 Commission, if it had any guts, would have had some big brass indicted for perjury). Again, without a real investigation we may never be able to pinpoint agencies or individuals, but there is no "secret" about government complicity. (And someday, as in the case of the JFK murder, people will talk. It's human nature.)
Lol, thank you for making my point.
With regard to CIA operatives coming forward, I assume you are speaking at least in part on Hunt's deathbed confession. I don't know the veracity of it, but I do know the hypocrisy in the argument. 3 of his five immediate family members claim he wasn't lucid and was coached, two of his sons claim it to be legitimate, one of whom happens to have a radio show and would benefit. If the argument were flipped and the government was making that case, you and every other CT would be pointing to it as a flaw in their argument, however since it supports what you want it to support it is presented as unquestioned truth. Many of the people who have said they were involved contradict each other as well (David in France for example and Hunt), which would be ground zero in a counter debate if the assassination were the official line. But again, nary a whimper. And not only that, I am apparently completely wrong in your mind while you are completely right, despite this fact.
I have no problem with someone looking into official stories, the government should be questioned. What I have a problem with is presenting as fact, or even likely fact something which has questionable veracity, when that is your exact problem with the supposed holes in the other side of the debate.
I'm just shaking my head that this is a thread. I can't wrap my head around how this could be a conspiracy
It's a shame, man. You've been trained to confine your own thinking to a narrowly-defined box. The psychopaths who run this country don't want you thinking outside of it.
You're free to think that this was an actual cut-and-dry shooting if you'd like to but I think there's plenty of evidence to suggest that we don't know everything.
And I think the parents we've heard from being huge gun control advocates only adds to it. Weren't there supposedly some kids that survived? Why haven't we heard from their parents? Why have we only heard from the select-few hardcore gun control advocates? If there actually were no survivors, the efficiency of an attack like that is beyond what some 20 year old kid could carry out.
The CIA were going to pose as Cuban terrorists in order to get us to buy-in to a war against Cuba. No conspiracy, fact. JFK was the president that stopped it. The CIA isn't above doing something like this if the president believes a political agenda can be achieved. It's disgusting and beyond the realm of comprehension for you and I, but government whether it's a democracy or dictatorship is evil by nature.
Operation Northwoods never came to fruition and was a despicable plan.
But to your point on gun control I would make two points.
First, a parent who just lost a kid in a shooting is almost certainly going to be blaming guns at least in part, there shouldn't be any surprise there. But second, even if the media was taking a liberal position and seeking out the parents who wanted gun control for their own agendas, that proves that they have agendas, not that the government or some other entity murdered 20 innocent children.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. And to claim that the police, ME, media, United Way, maybe the CIA or some other government agency and others were involved in a massive conspiracy to murder innocent school kids to further an agenda is an extraordinary claim.
You're free to think that this was an actual cut-and-dry shooting if you'd like to but I think there's plenty of evidence to suggest that we don't know everything.
Us "not knowing everything" doesn't make it a conspiracy. Accepting informational ambiguity and hysteresis is part of being a functioning adult.
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That's not the "conspiracy" plan that a few are suggesting.
Nevertheless, it is interesting/unusual.
Well, you've answered your own question then.
This thread was started on the premise that this dad's reaction was "unusual"--with many thinking it "fake" or "staged." If that were true, then obviously, the parent had something to do with the conspiracy--and leads to the above questions, which you obviously agree are completely unrealistic.
As for the rest--if the parent had nothing to do with the conspiracy, than all the video demonstrates is a person acting oddly in a tragic situation. There is no factual basis for concluding there's a larger conspiracy based on that one oddity.
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I think the suggestion is a black ops team went in, did what they did, had a kid that was involved and now dead (though no one alive I think has said they recognized Adam Lanza as the shooter that day)....so they could have cased this loner genius and killed him and his mother, smashed computers, knew dad lived far away.....
Leads to a question...were the local cops the ones who found Lanza in the school, or people involved...which would be much easier to cover and exit with him.
So...I'm not following: the suggestion is a team of government operatives carried out the shooting?
--and, where this line of thinking gets smashed on the cold, hard facts of reality: local cops were the ones who arrived at the scene and initiated the investigation. Unlike 9-11 or Waco, this was a local crime and local/state law enforcement officers have had jurisdiction. I haven't seen anything where the feds have stepped in to overtake the investigation.
Local cops are almost always people from the local community and people who've had an established presence in the area. Again, if one were to accept this theory, you're accepting that local cops and state law enforcement officers (everyday, common citizens and neighbors) were "in" on the conspiracy and played an active role. Not some super-secret, trained government agent...local cops from a small community. Now, I'm no big fan of local cops or anything--but I highly doubt you'd get a group of local law enforcement officers willing to participate in a mass murder like this.
As above, that's about as realistic as implying 20 parents would sacrifice their children and keep silent about it.
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Not saying I think it's what happened, but it's just what they are saying....................... I think.
The conspiracy theorist's "Nuremberg defense": "not saying, just saying." With all due respect, such line of thinking is no less harmful a rationalization than "I was just following orders."
In saying that, I really don't know if you were speculating on what conspiracy theorists' believe or if that's your own personal beliefs, but just pointing out engaging in such ideal speculation is, in and of itself, a potentially toxic rationalization.
Has anyone alive identified Adam Lanza as the shooter, saw him in the school?
Several people are alive that were in the school that day.
Is there video at the front doors/front hall of the school?
Good questions here from someone who's probably never been shot at.
Since you like asking questions, I have one for you: say you were in a situation where there's a shooter firing at everyone in sight. Is your first priority going to be to get a perfect visual of the guy--or to find the first cover you can find where you're shielded and, by definition, aren't visible/can't see the shooter (and their gun)?
You're free to believe that dad's grief was genuine. Personally, I believe it's about as genuine as Casey Anthony's.
See an earlier question: if the father's grief was staged, then he was part of the conspiracy.
Which, by definition, means he sacrificed his child to the Iluminatti or the Stone Cutters or the vampire elite (or whichever imaginary super-villain society you want to create). And, by definition, that means all the other 19 or so parents were also "in" on the conspiracy and sacrificed their children too, but were more convincing at their acting.
And, again, if you're seriously trying to say that you can find a group of 20 parents who would sacrifice their children without any remorse for a cause as flimsy as gun control...well, what's just say you have serious issues.
Lol, thank you for making my point.
With regard to CIA operatives coming forward, I assume you are speaking at least in part on Hunt's deathbed confession.
His confession rings true based on the evidence that the CIA was involved, as he said it was. He himself or his doppelganger was photographed in Dealey Plaza shortly after the shooting (no, not as one of the three tramps, but crossing Elm Street in a trench coat and felt hat like a secret agent straight out of central casting). The CIA's Rip Robertson was photographed on the corner of Main and Houston (safely out of the kill zone) as JFK rode by. A prime suspect is the CIA's David Morales (whom Hunt also named), who drunkenly ranted to friends about JFK and then said, "We took care of that son of a bitch, didn't we?" Morales died of a "heart attack" before he could be questioned by the HSCA. Another prime suspect is the CIA's David Atlee Phillips, who according to his brother admitted on his deathbed that he was in Dallas that day. There is CIA operative John Martino, whose wife says he told her that JFK was going to be killed when he went to Dallas. Every one of these people could be lying, but if so they were all telling the truth at the same time, i.e. the CIA was involved.
__________________ It takes a lot of time to be a genius, you have to sit around so much doing nothing. – Gertrude Stein
See an earlier question: if the father's grief was staged, then he was part of the conspiracy.
Which, by definition, means he sacrificed his child to the Iluminatti or the Stone Cutters or the vampire elite (or whichever imaginary super-villain society you want to create). And, by definition, that means all the other 19 or so parents were also "in" on the conspiracy and sacrificed their children too, but were more convincing at their acting.
And, again, if you're seriously trying to say that you can find a group of 20 parents who would sacrifice their children without any remorse for a cause as flimsy as gun control...well, what's just say you have serious issues.
Or the entire shooting was staged, the kids are all alive, and none of it actually happened. In addition to the dad, there's a bunch of others with weird reactions as well.
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