Fear Of Food

[ATL_Gator]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

It is only a mental problem in that 'willpower' is not sufficient to override the very powerfu,l unconscious biological drives that kick in to recoup lost weight.

It's not meant too.

Attributing weight regain to lack of willpower is like saying that all you need is more willpower to keep yourself in a starved state. Hell, if that's what people want to do, they can go for as far as I'm concerned.

I'll sit back and watch.

Sorry, but I disagree.

A co-worker brought in Cake pops yesterday. (literally mini cake balls 1 inch in diameter on a stick, frosting and sprinkles on top). I kid you not, I had about 12 of them throughout the day. This is on top of my breakfast (Honey Nut Cheerios), lunch (Pork Tenderloin and Kale leftovers), and my dinner (WAY Too much spaghetti and Meatballs).

I guarantee, right here, that there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the cake pops that I actually need. My life would continue with no issues what so ever had I never eaten those.

I craved them all day. After the first one, I could taste it all day. I wanted more. I did not need more. The fact that I ate more, 11 different times was me CAVING to the WANT to experience the taste again. Nothing more. The fact that I had them is the temporary return on the experience was GREATER than the known penalty, and I simply didn't care.

This all repeated at dinner time too. Made a bunch of spaghetti and meatballs. Put enough for 2 servings on my plate. I had every intention of only eating half and then putting half up for lunch today. Coincidentally, I was too lazy to go and get the leftover dish at the moment I was making my plate, so 100% of the food was put there... and 100% was eaten.

I even thought to myself half way through... that's enough, save the rest for tomorrow. Then said... just half a meat ball more. Well, now the other half, with some pasta and sauce... Next thing, plate is near empty.

No way did I need the other half. MENTAL FAILURE. I was simply not strong enough to sit there with the food in front of me and not experience it.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by ATL_Gator

Sorry, but I disagree.

A co-worker brought in Cake pops yesterday. (literally mini cake balls 1 inch in diameter on a stick, frosting and sprinkles on top). I kid you not, I had about 12 of them throughout the day. This is on top of my breakfast (Honey Nut Cheerios), lunch (Pork Tenderloin and Kale leftovers), and my dinner (WAY Too much spaghetti and Meatballs).

I guarantee, right here, that there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING in the cake pops that I actually need. My life would continue with no issues what so ever had I never eaten those.

I craved them all day. After the first one, I could taste it all day. I wanted more. I did not need more. The fact that I ate more, 11 different times was me CAVING to the WANT to experience the taste again. Nothing more. The fact that I had them is the temporary return on the experience was GREATER than the known penalty, and I simply didn't care.

This all repeated at dinner time too. Made a bunch of spaghetti and meatballs. Put enough for 2 servings on my plate. I had every intention of only eating half and then putting half up for lunch today. Coincidentally, I was too lazy to go and get the leftover dish at the moment I was making my plate, so 100% of the food was put there... and 100% was eaten.

I even thought to myself half way through... that's enough, save the rest for tomorrow. Then said... just half a meat ball more. Well, now the other half, with some pasta and sauce... Next thing, plate is near empty.

No way did I need the other half. MENTAL FAILURE. I was simply not strong enough to sit there with the food in front of me and not experience it.

You're missing the point. There is a world of difference between surmounting transitory cravings for Cake Pops and losing appreciable amounts of weight and keeping it off long-term.

Recidivism is upwards of 95% within 1-2 years. And upwards of two-thirds end up heavier than ever. This ain't the body craving Cake Pops, whatever those are. Now I'm wanting some.

[ATL_Gator]

Originally Posted by MeyerIsBack

Numbers lie all the time. I will read the thread.

1. I personally believe there are too many excuses for people to be fat.

Exactly, and exactly.

Even remaining perfectly honest, you can manipulate data to make it show what ever you want. Toss in a researcher willing to OMIT legit data that is contrary to their thesis/argument/funding obligations... and you are ripe for some good number cookin' (The China Study)

And ....

Political Correctness at it's greatest. Can't make anyone feel bad for being fat. "Research" it away! ... just my $0.02.

[MeyerIsBack]

Originally Posted by Gatorrick22

Your Thyroid is part of the endocrine system that fights/prevents cancer.

A failing endocrine system causes cancer.

So what causes a failing endocrine system?

[Dreamliner]

One very good excuse for being fat is that you are genetically predisposed to carry a lot of fat.

Obesity is almost certainly genetic.

[ATL_Gator]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

One very good excuse for being fat is that you are genetically predisposed to carry a lot of fat.

Obesity is almost certainly genetic.

Again, I will fence sit on this one.

I will agree that obesity can be genetic.

I also feel that eating too much also leads to obesity... Eating habits are LEARNED, not passed on through genetics.

[MeyerIsBack]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

One very good excuse for being fat is that you are genetically predisposed to carry a lot of fat.

Obesity is almost certainly genetic.

Where is the data for this? I really have not looked into this at all but my first thought is learned behavior. If a person is raised by heavy people their eating habits and views on body type will be shaped by their fat parents.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by ATL_Gator

Again, I will fence sit on this one.

I will agree that obesity can be genetic.

I also feel that eating too much also leads to obesity... Eating habits are LEARNED, not passed on through genetics.

Here again, I have already ventured that Americans are possibly especially prone to emotional eating. And some may be well above their healthy weight. For these, eating in a more attuned manner will almost certainly result in at least some weight loss.

BUT, dieting also results in overfeeding. So, I wonder how many millions of Americans are currently stuffing their faces as part-and-parcel of weight regain.

Most Americans are not gaining weight linearly.Only the fattest of the fat have exhibited a marked weight gain since the 'obesity crisis' began. Most do basically stabilize at some weight. And from that point, you observe a remarkable degree of homeostasis.

[Potzer01]

Breathing kills us. Its a fact.

The rest of this is merely masturbation.

Exercise is quite literally masturbation, especially the type done in a gym, for none rehabilitating purposes.

[MeyerIsBack]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

Here again, I have already ventured that Americans are possibly especially prone to emotional eating. And some may be well above their healthy weight. For these, eating in a more attuned manner will almost certainly result in at least some weight loss.

BUT, dieting also results in overfeeding. So, I wonder how many millions of Americans are currently stuffing their faces as part-and-parcel of weight regain.

Most Americans are not gaining weight linearly.Only the fattest of the fat have exhibited a marked weight gain since the 'obesity crisis' began. Most do basically stabilize at some weight. And from that point, you observe a remarkable degree of homeostasis.

Your body requires more calories the fatter you get. Maybe these people are fattening themselves up til their intake and outtake match.

[Gatorrick22]

Originally Posted by MeyerIsBack

So what causes a failing endocrine system?

Your thyroid is the master gland, once it goes so goes your endocrine system, and your protection from free-radicals that cause cancer..

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by MeyerIsBack

Your body requires more calories the fatter you get. Maybe these people are fattening themselves up til their intake and outtake match.

And this is precisely why most people do not simply become fatter and fatter. Across the board, homeostasis is much more notable than linear weight gain.

I'm a rather rare example. I am quite thin at 6-0 145. I can gain 10 pounds force-feeding. About 9 of it goers on around my waist. And much more than 10 pounds and my appetite begins to shut down. I literally get sick of food.

[MeyerIsBack]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

And this is precisely why most people do not simply become fatter and fatter. Across the board, homeostasis is much more notable than linear weight gain.

I'm a rather rare example. I am quite thin at 6-0 145. I can gain 10 pounds force-feeding. About 9 of it goers on around my waist. And much more than 10 pounds and my appetite begins to shut down. I literally get sick of food.

Not such a bad problem to have

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by MeyerIsBack

Not such a bad problem to have

True, true. But apart from my skinny-ness probably not buying me extra years, I suspect that most people experience something on this level. The vast majority will not be able to force-feed themselves into oblivion even if they want to.

What we fixate on are the outliers, the "My 600-Pound Life" types who almost certainly suffer from hormonal deficiencies or hormonal resistance.

They probably ought to call "The Biggest Loser" the "Biggest Regainer." One former contestant blogged that he regained 39 pounds five weeks after he 'graduated.'

[ATL_Gator]

Originally Posted by Potzer01

Breathing kills us. Its a fact.

The rest of this is merely masturbation.

Exercise is quite literally masturbation, especially the type done in a gym, for none rehabilitating purposes.

Not sure I can use a public gym the same after reading that.

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

Here again, I have already ventured that Americans are possibly especially prone to emotional eating. And some may be well above their healthy weight. For these, eating in a more attuned manner will almost certainly result in at least some weight loss.

BUT, dieting also results in overfeeding. So, I wonder how many millions of Americans are currently stuffing their faces as part-and-parcel of weight regain.

Most Americans are not gaining weight linearly.Only the fattest of the fat have exhibited a marked weight gain since the 'obesity crisis' began. Most do basically stabilize at some weight. And from that point, you observe a remarkable degree of homeostasis.

IMO, there is only so much chewing a person is going to do.

Because a person at 200 lb is eating enough calories to support a weight of 300 lb doesn't mean that when they reach 250, they are going to be eating enough to support 350 lb. Thus, the method of eating ALSO doesn't linearly increase with the weight gained. Therefore, it is logical that weight gain will eventually "level off"..

Think of it this way.
Drive 30 mph for an hour... Average speed... 30 mph.
For the next hour, drive at 70 mph. Average over the 2 hours.. 50 mph ... big gain
For the next hour, drive at 70 mph. Average over the 3 hours.. 56 mph... large gain, but not as much
so on ... Average over 4 hours.. 60 mph ... smaller gain
Average over 5 hours... 62 mph ... even smaller gain
average over 6 hours.. 63 mph.... is this a measurable gain?

So, even though I have been driving at 70 mph for most of the time looked at, it appears that I am "leveling off" at 63 mph... which is literally 10% less than my actual speed. What is happening is that I am asymptotically approaching my ACTUAL speed... thus, as time goes along, my rate at which I approach my speed goes WAY down.

Personally, I see weight gain the same way. Given that the calories in are relatively fixed... weight gain is going to asymptotically approach the actual weight for that amount of calories given infinite time. I feel that is why we are seeing the "leveling out".. How much we are eating isn't necessarily increasing that much.. and we have been doing so for long enough now that when we look at the "recent" short term trends, we don't see much change anymore... and we declare the problem fixed!

[MeyerIsBack]

Originally Posted by Potzer01

Breathing kills us. Its a fact.

The rest of this is merely masturbation.

Exercise is quite literally masturbation, especially the type done in a gym, for none rehabilitating purposes.

This is both amazingly disturbing and exceedingly insightful

[ATL_Gator]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

And this is precisely why most people do not simply become fatter and fatter. Across the board, homeostasis is much more notable than linear weight gain.

I'm a rather rare example. I am quite thin at 6-0 145. I can gain 10 pounds force-feeding. About 9 of it goers on around my waist. And much more than 10 pounds and my appetite begins to shut down. I literally get sick of food.

For the record, I do not suffer from your condition...

...

And I do not envision myself EVER being 265 again.

AS is the case today... I literally become disgusted with myself after binge eating... and have to fight the urge to go nutzoid during the following days.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by ATL_Gator

Not sure I can use a public gym the same after reading that.





IMO, there is only so much chewing a person is going to do.

Because a person at 200 lb is eating enough calories to support a weight of 300 lb doesn't mean that when they reach 250, they are going to be eating enough to support 350 lb. Thus, the method of eating ALSO doesn't linearly increase with the weight gained. Therefore, it is logical that weight gain will eventually "level off"..

Think of it this way.
Drive 30 mph for an hour... Average speed... 30 mph.
For the next hour, drive at 70 mph. Average over the 2 hours.. 50 mph ... big gain
For the next hour, drive at 70 mph. Average over the 3 hours.. 56 mph... large gain, but not as much
so on ... Average over 4 hours.. 60 mph ... smaller gain
Average over 5 hours... 62 mph ... even smaller gain
average over 6 hours.. 63 mph.... is this a measurable gain?

So, even though I have been driving at 70 mph for most of the time looked at, it appears that I am "leveling off" at 63 mph... which is literally 10% less than my actual speed. What is happening is that I am asymptotically approaching my ACTUAL speed... thus, as time goes along, my rate at which I approach my speed goes WAY down.

Personally, I see weight gain the same way. Given that the calories in are relatively fixed... weight gain is going to asymptotically approach the actual weight for that amount of calories given infinite time. I feel that is why we are seeing the "leveling out".. How much we are eating isn't necessarily increasing that much.. and we have been doing so for long enough now that when we look at the "recent" short term trends, we don't see much change anymore... and we declare the problem fixed!

I agree with what I *think* you're saying. But the very researchers who note this basic stabilization show little evidence of being able to separate themselves from the moral panic which is the 'obesity crisis.'

It's almost like they're saying. "Well, obesity is not really going through the roof. And the heavier we get, the longer we live. But still, obesity is killing us!"

[MeyerIsBack]

Originally Posted by ATL_Gator

For the record, I do not suffer from your condition...

...

And I do not envision myself EVER being 265 again.

AS is the case today... I literally become disgusted with myself after binge eating... and have to fight the urge to go nutzoid during the following days.

This is me in a nutshell. It may be why I have little sympathy for overweight people. I know it today's society being a healthy weight requires sacrifice or will power or whatever you want to call it. I know it rarely just happens.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by ATL_Gator

For the record, I do not suffer from your condition...

...

And I do not envision myself EVER being 265 again.

AS is the case today... I literally become disgusted with myself after binge eating... and have to fight the urge to go nutzoid during the following days.

There you go, a welcome victory. I surmise that your 265 might have been like my low 160's, years ago, the heaviest I've ever been. It's hard for me to now imagine eating enough to get back there.

And again, I'm not saying that no one can lose a bunch of weight and keep it off forever. Certainly recidivism is short of 100%. But of course everyone thinks they're the exception to the rule.