The shame of it all...if Ohio St.'s not on probation

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by tomis_gator

I will make a really crazy statement....."Muschamp is already a better coach than Meyer." Mushamp obviously doesn't yet have the results yet but I think he's better at coaching players. How long did it take Meyer to get his offense going at Florida? It took years and then it only really worked with two very specially players running it...Tebow and Harvin. How long did it take Muschamp to implement his defense at Florida? Basically one season. After one year, Muschamp had this team playing defense as well as, if not better, any team in the country.

I think it's way too early to anoint Muschamp as among the top 5 coaches in the U.S. (as Meyer is), but I'm optimistic.

It did take Meyer 2 years to get his offense rocking, but he did so similarly with other groups of athletes beyond Tebow & Harvin, so this is a pretty silly statement. Hell, Ohio State is averaging 120 more yards per game than when he arrived.

But you also miss the fact that Meyer turned a 2004 defense that was ranked around 45 to top 10 in the first year and top 5 in the second. You're being very selective here in favor of anyone but Meyer, which is telling.

[tomis_gator]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

I think it's way too early to anoint Muschamp as among the top 5 coaches in the U.S. (as Meyer is), but I'm optimistic.

It did take Meyer 2 years to get his offense rocking, but he did so similarly with other groups of athletes beyond Tebow & Harvin, so this is a pretty silly statement. Hell, Ohio State is averaging 120 more yards per game than when he arrived.

But you also miss the fact that Meyer turned a 2004 defense that was ranked around 45 to top 10 in the first year and top 5 in the second. You're being very selective here in favor of anyone but Meyer, which is telling.

You mean Strong and Mattison turned the defense.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

And as Tilly noted, the offense was better than we remember in year 2.

Defense:
2004: #42
2005: #9
2006: #6

Offense:
2004: #22
2005: #61
2006: #19

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by tomis_gator

You mean Strong and Mattison turned the defense.

That's the selective part. With Meyer, the assistants get the credit for the good, Meyer the credit for the bad.

[Darkshani]

Originally Posted by Tipmoose

Because I believe Meyer could see the handwriting on the wall. The year before it took everything he and Tebow had to win the SECCG. Then they returned most of their starters and struggled the entire year to get into the MNC...only to get absolutely arse whipped.

I think he knew what was coming and got out while the argument you're making could still be made.

100% correct. I'm with you completely on that.

[tomis_gator]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

That's the selective part. With Meyer, the assistants get the credit for the good, Meyer the credit for the bad.

Meyer gets credit for the offense...his thing..while Strong/Mattison get credit for the defense.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by tomis_gator

Meyer gets credit for the offense...his thing..while Strong/Mattison get credit for the defense.

That's pretty silly. Do you then give Meyer credit for his offensive booms in 2006, 2007-2009 as well as at BGSU, Utah and now Ohio State? Or is that also conveniently skipped?

Meyer and Muschamp are both head coaches with coordinators at both sides of the ball.

[tomis_gator]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

And as Tilly noted, the offense was better than we remember in year 2.

Defense:
2004: #42
2005: #9
2006: #6

Offense:
2004: #22
2005: #61
2006: #19

In year two, did Muschamp coach the #19 defense in the country or did he coach a top 3 defense?

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by tomis_gator

In year two, did Muschamp coach the #19 defense in the country or did he coach a top 3 defense?

Neither?

[orangeblueorangeblue]

My point isn't that Muschamp isn't good, it's that to say he's better than Meyer at this point is without much merit and tends to show a specific bias against the latter (as demonstrated elsewhere in this thread).

We can be excited, happy and hopeful for Muschamp without derision pointed at Meyer. It's ok to say we had a great head coach that left us.

[tomis_gator]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

That's pretty silly. Do you then give Meyer credit for his offensive booms in 2006, 2007-2009 as well as at BGSU, Utah and now Ohio State? Or is that also conveniently skipped?

Meyer and Muschamp are both head coaches with coordinators at both sides of the ball.

I don't skip anything and of course I'll give Meyer credit where it's due. But my statement still applies...Muschamp is a better coach....to put it another way for you...I'd much rather have Muschamp coaching our defense than have Meyer coaching our offense.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by tomis_gator

I don't skip anything and of course I'll give Meyer credit where it's due. But my statement still applies...Muschamp is a better coach....to put it another way for you...I'd much rather have Muschamp coaching our defense than have Meyer coaching our offense.

I hear you, but we're not talking about positional coaches.

Meyer has 2 perfect seasons, 2 national championships and 2 SECs. I don't think we're quite at the point of having a proven better head coach in Muschamp.

Do I think he'll get up there? Yeah, I believe so. Can I say that now? Not honestly, no.

[tomis_gator]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

Neither?

I'm pretty certain our 2012 defense is in the top 3...

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by tomis_gator

I'm pretty certain our 2012 defense is in the top 3...

Close. We're #5.

[gator1986]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

Close. We're #5.

That number is kind of flawed to we should be #3 because of quality teams some of those top 4 played... But we're not so they got to play better!!!

[luciaboy]

louisville will disagree with that

[tilly]

Originally Posted by tomis_gator

Meyer gets credit for the offense...his thing..while Strong/Mattison get credit for the defense.

The head coach gets credit for everything. Strong/Mattison aren't even around if Urban says otherwise.

And Special teams were pretty amazing too. Without some blocked kicks, we never win that title. Who coached that unit?

Look I can't stand tOSU. I hate that Urban went there...but the truth is, the guy was brilliantly effective while here and the history is set in stone...and Coach Champ still has his work ahead.

I love our coach. I can't wait for him to hoist that crystal football ...but he's not there yet

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by gator1986

That number is kind of flawed to we should be #3 because of quality teams some of those top 4 played... But we're not so they got to play better!!!

Actually, the offenses we faced this year weren't particularly adept outside of Georgia. We have another thread where we hash the details of this out a bit more thoroughly.

[tomis_gator]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

Close. We're #5.

I don't see four better defenses out there.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Yeah how silly would it sound if you said we were only #5 because of Dan Quinn? Exactly. Head coaches get credit for and blame for the whole thing.

You don't get to break it apart and say oh yeah it's Pease's fault we sucked on offense but Muschamp gets credit for defense while simultaneously lauding Strong for Meyer's defenses and glossing over the offenses successes.

It would be very hard to argue that Urban Meyer isn't a top 5 head coach in college today. I think it would be disingenuous to do so.