The shame of it all...if Ohio St.'s not on probation

[gator07]

Originally Posted by Tipmoose

Because I believe Meyer could see the handwriting on the wall. The year before it took everything he and Tebow had to win the SECCG. Then they returned most of their starters and struggled the entire year to get into the MNC...only to get absolutely arse whipped.

I think he knew what was coming and got out while the argument you're making could still be made.

I think it was more so his own team that scared him. He saw all of those departing senior and nothing else but a bare cupboard and a lack of control and discipline and got out before the "Urban Meyer" name was tarnished.

[tomis_gator]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

The tales we weave to make ourselves feel better. Another chapter in Gator Mythology canonized.

So you are in the "my throat hurts and I miss my kids camp"? That's fine...to each his own....fairy tale....

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by tomis_gator

So you are in the "my throat hurts and I miss my kids camp"? That's fine...to each his own....fairy tale....

No, I'm not. I think it was probably a confluence of factors. But I'm not going to make up stories that don't even logically make sense to alleviate the collective butthurt this fanbase had when he decided to go elsewhere.

[OaktownGator]

My take...

Meyer got us two championships and some great players and exciting football along the way. He deserves the credit for that.

Meyer got us a ton of frustration with the most talented team in Gator history in 2009... under performing all year long and wetting the bed in the SEC CG. And appeared to really run himself into serious health issues.

Then Meyer put his friendships and loyalty to Addazio and others above the good of the program, and we took a big hit because of it. While I appreciate loyalty, he took it too far and he deserves the blame for those failures.

He took the Bucknuts job because he's obsessive compulsive, and can't help himself. Just this season in a relatively low stress situation (they had nothing to play for), he shows the signs of running himself into health issues again. Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me at all to see him drop right on the field during a big game, due to a heart attack, stroke or other type of seizure. He needs to retire from big time coaching before he kills himself.

JMO.

[tomis_gator]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

No, I'm not. I think it was probably a confluence of factors. But I'm not going to make up stories that don't even logically make sense to alleviate the collective butthurt this fanbase had when he decided to go elsewhere.

I don't speak for any collective but there was zero 'butthurt' on my part when he left...there was only relief...fairy tale or not...after what I saw Saban do to Meyer's team in 2009, I was convinced Meyer would never beat him again and our only shot at taking over the SEC again was with another coach.

The idea that Saban ran Meyer off, not only makes sense but is also the most likely and the most accepted scenario out there.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Seriously, it makes no sense. Shula beat him even worse. He was 1-1 against Saban. The notion that this is even in the realm of logical and likely is silly.

[tomis_gator]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

Seriously, it makes no sense. Shula beat him even worse. He was 1-1 against Saban. The notion that this is even in the realm of logical and likely is silly.

The fact that you keep clinging to 1-1 is extremely silly. There is nuance behind every record and if you think Meyer is somehow Saban's equal....well...good day to you.

[revthejedi]

If he's so afraid of Saban, why come back into coaching? I'm sure there were a number of reasons why Urban stepped down, some we'll never know about. That doesn't change the fact that he won two MNCs and made UF a national power again. Not to mention, his teams were probably the best in school history.

[Spurffelbow833]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

This would be pretty antithetical to the personality type of Meyer and every other championship coach.

Whether he ran scared or not is moot from our standpoint. He ran. Doesn't matter why. He quit on us the first time the going got tough.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by tomis_gator

The fact that you keep clinging to 1-1 is extremely silly. There is nuance behind every record and if you think Meyer is somehow Saban's equal....well...good day to you.

What's to cling to? It's fact. Shula beat Meyer even worse. There's nothing even remotely logical to reconcile this tale.

[tilly]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

When he quit he was 1-1 against Saban. Why on earth do people really think that fear of Saban scared off Meyer?

I always wonder the same thing....its silly.

[phatGator]

There is a principle of logic called Ockham's razor, which occasionally someone on GC will mention, that states that among competing hypotheses, the one that makes the fewest assumptions should be selected.

In Meyer's case, that would be he had been extremely successful at multiple schools (a matter of record), stress and anxiety drove him to health problems (documented as fact), he resigned (a fact), he was torn in the decision (a statement he publicly made) and so rescinded it (a fact), coached another year (a fact), things did not get better (by his own admission), he quit (a fact), he stayed out almost a year (a fact), he missed coaching football (a statement both he and his wife have made in interviews), the team he followed as a kid and where he started out coaching had an opening (a fact), and he took the job (a fact).

No more assumptions or speculations are needed. The simplest explanation is exactly as Meyer has presented it, or pretty close to it. Everything else is the fantasies of disgruntled fans.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by phatGator

There is a principle of logic called Ockham's razor, which occasionally someone on GC will mention, that states that among competing hypotheses, the one that makes the fewest assumptions should be selected.

In Meyer's case, that would be he had been extremely successful at multiple schools (a matter of record), stress and anxiety drove him to health problems (documented as fact), he resigned (a fact), he was torn in the decision (a statement he publicly made) and so rescinded it (a fact), coached another year (a fact), things did not get better (by his own admission), he quit (a fact), he stayed out almost a year (a fact), he missed coaching football (a statement both he and his wife have made in interviews), the team he followed as a kid and where he started out coaching had an opening (a fact), and he took the job (a fact).

No more assumptions or speculations are needed. The simplest explanation is exactly as Meyer has presented it, or pretty close to it. Everything else is the fantasies of disgruntled fans.

Exactly. And whether it's "correct" or not is largely irrelevant. But my larger point is these chapters in Gator Mythology get canonized so quickly the illogical, unfounded "Meyer left because he was scared of Saban" nonsense gets canonized without so much of a blink of an eye.

I understand the underlying psychology of it, I just wish people would pause for a minute and think before perpetuating it.

[tilly]

Urban still has to go through Saban...or the team that beats Saban to win the NC. And has an arguably less fruitful recruiting pool to draw from.

If he was actually scared of Nicky, than why not just go to the NFL? Why come back to the game while Saban is still in his prime? He will not win a title without beating Saban or someone better that year. He can't recruit the south as well as he did at UF ...

No. I think the Gator nation has created this thought process.

Did he leave the right way? I feel he did not.
Was he sick? Probably.
Was he scared? No way.

Just my opinion.

[socraticsilence]

Originally Posted by Tipmoose

Because I believe Meyer could see the handwriting on the wall. The year before it took everything he and Tebow had to win the SECCG. Then they returned most of their starters and struggled the entire year to get into the MNC...only to get absolutely arse whipped.

I think he knew what was coming and got out while the argument you're making could still be made.

So it was like Pease coming to Florida- he sold high before the market crashed?

[lurkingator1]

That big ole wussy up north

[socraticsilence]

Funny thing is you could make the same case (but with more proof) about Spurrier finally realizing he could never outcoach Bowden- I mean sure he won some games but he could never ever win in Tally and he was only slightly above .500 in the Swamp, so he ran off to the NFL where he wouldn't have to face FSU anymore.

It'd be stupid, but so is the delusional bs about Meyer running from Saban- I hope someday Boom can approach Meyer's level of coaching much less Saban's but it'll be a long hard slog and I don't see how it helps anything to spin rationalizations about why his predecessor left when the man's own explanation makes by far the most sense.

[tilly]

Originally Posted by socraticsilence

Funny thing is you could make the same case (but with more proof) about Spurrier finally realizing he could never outcoach Bowden- I mean sure he won some games but he could never ever win in Tally and he was only slightly above .500 in the Swamp, so he ran off to the NFL where he wouldn't have to face FSU anymore.

It'd be stupid, but so is the delusional bs about Meyer running from Saban- I hope someday Boom can approach Meyer's level of coaching much less Saban's but it'll be a long hard slog and I don't see how it helps anything to spin rationalizations about why his predecessor left when the man's own explanation makes by far the most sense.

Well said on all counts.

[tomis_gator]

Originally Posted by socraticsilence

Funny thing is you could make the same case (but with more proof) about Spurrier finally realizing he could never outcoach Bowden- I mean sure he won some games but he could never ever win in Tally and he was only slightly above .500 in the Swamp, so he ran off to the NFL where he wouldn't have to face FSU anymore.

It'd be stupid, but so is the delusional bs about Meyer running from Saban- I hope someday Boom can approach Meyer's level of coaching much less Saban's but it'll be a long hard slog and it doesn't help him get there to try and lower his predecessor down to his level.

I will make a really crazy statement....."Muschamp is already a better coach than Meyer." Mushamp obviously doesn't yet have the results yet but I think he's better at coaching players. How long did it take Meyer to get his offense going at Florida? It took years and then it only really worked with two very specially players running it...Tebow and Harvin. How long did it take Muschamp to implement his defense at Florida? Basically one season. After one year, Muschamp had this team playing defense as well as, if not better, any team in the country.

[tilly]

Originally Posted by tomis_gator

I will make a really crazy statement....."Muschamp is already a better coach than Meyer." Mushamp obviously doesn't yet have the results yet but I think he's better at coaching players. How long did it take Meyer to get his offense going at Florida? It took years and then it only really worked with two very specially players running it...Tebow and Harvin. How long did it take Muschamp to implement his defense at Florida? Basically one season. After one year, Muschamp had this team playing defense as well as, if not better, any team in the country.

I agree we have a great coach. But in year two Urban had all 3 phases clicking pretty good.

I agree though... give our current staff a Percy and a Tim...and we crush Notre Dame last night.