The Gunshow 'Loophole'

[wgbgator]

I think the problem is that private sales are barely regulated, if at all. Also an indirect reason why your insurance limits the $ payable on theft claims on firearms (among certain other types of personal property).

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

I think the problem is that private sales are barely regulated, if at all. Also an indirect reason why your insurance limits the $ payable on theft claims on firearms (among certain other types of personal property).

That's why I have a contract written up for both the buyer and seller if I sell my firearms privately

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

I think the problem is that private sales are barely regulated, if at all. Also an indirect reason why your insurance limits the $ payable on theft claims on firearms (among certain other types of personal property).

What you're saying is not accurate, because it depends on the state

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by gatorman_07732

What you're saying is not accurate, because it depends on the state

Ok, fair enough. Let's just say there isnt much in the way of a national standard.

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

Ok, fair enough. Let's just say there isnt much in the way of a national standard.

I don't believe it should be for the federal government to decide what the best for all states. One size fits all gun legislation leads is quite scary. Leads not forget what lead us to this gun legislation and that states particularly rigid gun control laws. This is all a statist solution that is just designed to take more rights away from the citizens of this country at large. If you don't like the gun laws in your state then move to one that has more strict legislation, but don't try to conform the laws of the entire country as you want.

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by gatorman_07732

I don't believe it should be for the federal government to decide what the best for all states. One size fits all gun legislation leads is quite scary. Leads not forget what lead us to this gun legislation and that states particularly rigid gun control laws. This is all a statist solution that is just designed to take more rights away from the citizens of this country at large. If you don't like the gun laws in your state then move to one that has more strict legislation, but don't try to conform the laws of the entire country as you want.

^^ Yet another in a long line of arguments against federalism - setting some minimum guidelines on private sales at a national level is met with this reasoning, and apparently "scary."

[philnotfil]

Originally Posted by VAg8r1

Are individuals who purchase firearms at gun shows (or through various forms of private sales) subject to background background checks? The term "gun show loophole refers to the absence of mandated background checks. According to the link below, there is, in fact, such a loophole.
link

If they buy from a licensed dealer they are subject to a background check, whether or not the licensed dealer is at a gunshow. If they buy from a private individual, they are not subject to a background check, whether or not the private individual is at a gunshow. Whether or not the purchase takes place at a gunshow is irrelevant.

[squigator]

Originally Posted by gator996

Whether or not there's a "loophole" is irrelevant.

Gun control activists want background checks performed on all gun sales.
They also want all sales, transfers, guns lost, guns destroyed to be recorded.

And they want all the members of the bureaucracy that would administer the recording process to be unionized workers contributing money to the democratic party.

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

^^ Yet another in a long line of arguments against federalism - setting some minimum guidelines on private sales at a national level is met with this reasoning, and apparently "scary."

No the scary part is your one size fits all approach and desire to levy what you deem is reasonable and fair.

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by gatorman_07732

No the scary part is your one size fits all approach and desire to levy what you deem is reasonable and fair.

It's not that at all. If I set a base floor of standards, states still have plenty of latitude to pass further laws or experiment how they wish, as long as they meet basic guidelines. Its the same reasoning in which "waivers" are granted on things like welfare or other federal laws. As long as you meet a basic threshold, you're golden and not necessarily bound to the letter of the law as the federal gov't writes it. I know, I know, that sounds like horrible, unimaginable tyranny.

[gator996]

[quote=gatorman_07732;6296769]

Originally Posted by gator996

That private person would have to go to their local police dept and have a background check performed prior to selling the gun or the buyer would have to have a background check performed prior to buying the gun and present the document to the seller who would be required to turn that report in after the sale.

If private gun transactions are generally between 2 law abiding citizens what would be the problem?[/QUOTE]

And it they're not law abidding, they won't give a flip anyway.

That's fine...add a gun charge to the buyer & seller if the gun is used to commit a crime

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

It's not that at all. If I set a base floor of standards, states still have plenty of latitude to pass further laws or experiment how they wish, as long as they meet basic guidelines. Its the same reasoning in which "waivers" are granted on things like welfare or other federal laws. As long as you meet a basic threshold, you're golden and not necessarily bound to the letter of the law as the federal gov't writes it. I know, I know, that sounds like horrible, unimaginable tyranny.

Sorry but he already have base floor of standards. What you want to do restrict freedoms of law abiding citizens. Again, I would suggest moving to a state the best fits the laws you desire.

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by gatorman_07732

Sorry but he already have base floor of standards. What you want to do restrict freedoms of law abiding citizens. Again, I would suggest moving to a state the best fits the laws you desire.

You said that we didn't.

[108]

i see no problem with imposing that private sales of guns must have a background check

seems like common sense

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

You said that we didn't.

I said no such thing...We have some restrictions for heavy artillery and class 3 weapons, not being able to carry on gov property, felons not being able to possess/buy a firearm, etc.... Your idea of gun control gets into a violation of rights. Again, you can move to a state with more rigid control laws so why don't you do it?

[gatorman_07732]

[quote=gator996;6297297]

Originally Posted by gatorman_07732

That's fine...add a gun charge to the buyer & seller if the gun is used to commit a crime

So if the gun is stolen from a persons house and used in a crime, then he should go to jail? You want to transform otherwise law abiding citizens into criminals. Pure genius

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by gatorman_07732

I said no such thing...We have some restrictions for heavy artillery and class 3 weapons, not being able to carry on gov property, felons not being able to possess/buy a firearm, etc.... Your idea of gun control gets into a violation of rights. Again, you can move to a state with more rigid control laws so why don't you do it?

If regulating private sales of property is a violation of rights, then state and federal gov't are seriously violating some rights with or without including guns.

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by 108

i see no problem with imposing that private sales of guns must have a background check

seems like common sense

If you would do your research, you would see that is the law where you reside. I think people in Wyoming would take issue with what you think is best for them.

[108]

Originally Posted by gatorman_07732

If you would do your research, you would see that is the law where you reside. I think people in Wyoming would take issue with what you think is best for them.

do you have a list of states besides Wyoming that don't impose a background check for private gun sales?

and can a person purchase between state lines?

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

If regulating private sales of property is a violation of rights, then state and federal gov't are seriously violating some rights with or without including guns.

Except there is a constitutional amendment that protects those rights. I'm going to ask one more time, WHY DON"T YOU MOVE TO A STATE THAT BEST FITS THE LAWS YOU WANT. That is the third time I asked this question. As I told 108 above, someone in Wyoming would take issue with what you want to impose on them. I find this completely arrogant