Civil War In The US?

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by Burke

I think we are going to have an economic collapse. What comes of it is less certain.

But people are learning that we really aren't a democracy and that the same govt that demands our obedience is in no way obedient to the Constitution.

so who, specifically, do you plan to kill and why?

[g8trjax]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

Well, first there would probably need to be something to fight and kill over other than losing an election.

What about a Zimmerman acquittal?

[ChartsandGrafs]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

Well, first there would probably need to be something to fight and kill over other than losing an election.

Absolutely, and whatever that "something" is is very much possible.

A gun ban and seizure is potentially very dangerous. There's a small percentage of people out there who absolutely will not submit. And while this percentage is small in relative terms, it still represents a large group of spirited, defiant people. The government rounding up and killing these people, and government mercenaries being killed in return, could easily spark a wider conflagration, especially if the economy goes further into the toilet, government checks stop showing up, public services break down, food disappears from shelves, and people start feeling hopeless. We won't see anything like the last civil war between the states, but we could see a full-on insurrection from coast to coast and involving hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people.

I believe the government has been preparing for something of this nature.

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by ChartsandGrafs

Absolutely, and whatever that "something" is is very much possible.

A gun ban and seizure is potentially very dangerous. There's a small percentage of people out there who absolutely will not submit. And while this percentage is small in relative terms, it still represents a large group of spirited, defiant people. The government rounding up and killing these people, and government mercenaries being killed in return, could easily spark a wider conflagration, especially if the economy goes further into the toilet, government checks stop showing up, public services break down, food disappears from shelves, and people start feeling hopeless. We won't see anything like the last civil war between the states, but we could see a full-on insurrection from coast to coast and involving hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people.

I believe the government is or has been preparing for something of this nature.

someone is seizing your guns?

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

Well, first there would probably need to be something to fight and kill over other than losing an election.

well how about debt? wars in the middle east, going bankrupt but continue to give other countries money, and if they try to disarm the country that would be the the first shot. Those in the military swore to uphold the constitution not the man in the white house. If that man in the white house gives them orders to disobey the constitution I hope they do what they're suppose to and tell him to piss up a rope. I know some will but some wont, some will turn their weapons in peacefully and others wont. An American President killing Americans for a right given to them in the constitution that the government is breaking will be the tipping point.

[Matthanuf06]

Originally Posted by rivergator

so who, specifically, do you plan to kill and why?

I think it can occur two ways

1. Authoritarian militaristic government at home. In other words they try to disarm Americans, spy on Americans, control behavior, etc. Some of this is occurring now but nowhere near the size needed to fight back. In this case it would be the citizens vs. government backers. Not the police or military as it currently stands as many of those would defect and fight for freedom. The odds of this occurring to the point of widespread clashes: 1%. This requires legislative action, and while the government is getting bolder they won't be able to pass enough to anger enough people to fight. This can happen in the very near term

2. Economic collapse. Deficit/Debt is crushing and destroys the dollar. The government defaults for all intents and purposes (or pays off debt with a worthless dollar). Nanny state collapses as it cannot afford anything. Retirement and savings are worthless due to a crappy dollar. The government collapses as we know it. The fight here is amongst ourselves and whomever tries to fill the vacuum. Now don't get me wrong, people will still trade/barter, and perhaps with the crappy dollar ($1000 for a gal of milk!), but the military/police presence wouldn't exist and there would be the lack of a rule of law. Generally it would be similar to other collapses. Odds of this 10%. I think it is VERY likely we get close to it, but not quite there. Dollar declines, savings get crushed, inflation hits, etc. I think it's a certainty and the only way to pay off our debt, but I'm hopeful we solve the issue (probably with some sort of bailout) and we don't get hyperinflation. We probably still have a handful of years before this can take place, so I'm also hopeful that future leaders can fix this problem.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Originally Posted by rivergator

someone is seizing your guns?

Why, do you think the government will just wave a magic wand and make the guns it doesn't want in the hands of the people just disappear?

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by ChartsandGrafs

Why, do you think the government will just wave a magic wand and make the guns it doesn't want in the hands of the people just disappear?

Oh, OK.
But, I'm curious, if "the government" doesn't want us to have guns, why do we have more of them than any country on earth?

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by PIMking

well how about debt? wars in the middle east, going bankrupt but continue to give other countries money, and if they try to disarm the country that would be the the first shot. Those in the military swore to uphold the constitution not the man in the white house. If that man in the white house gives them orders to disobey the constitution I hope they do what they're suppose to and tell him to piss up a rope. I know some will but some wont, some will turn their weapons in peacefully and others wont. An American President killing Americans for a right given to them in the constitution that the government is breaking will be the tipping point.

Well I'm sure there are numerous fantasy reasons like these that would trigger a civil war. Maybe an alien invasion too?

[Matthanuf06]

Originally Posted by rivergator

Oh, OK.
But, I'm curious, if "the government" doesn't want us to have guns, why do we have more of them than any country on earth?

Because there isn't really that much that can be done in the normal political process. IMO they are laying the groundwork via things that can pass, such as domestic spying. But it won't ever hit the fan unless there was some sort of mandate to pry the guns out of our fingers. I can't see it happening.

[Dreamliner]

This is exciting. Technically, this would be the second civil war we've ever had, the first being in 1775.*

*not a typo

[ChartsandGrafs]

Originally Posted by rivergator

Oh, OK.
But, I'm curious, if "the government" doesn't want us to have guns, why do we have more of them than any country on earth?

Because the government has been unwilling and unprepared to do anything about it until now. It's getting closer, though. Militarized police, fusion centers, Department of Fatherland Security, NDAA, Patriot Act, drones overhead, 24/7 surveillance of the people, anti-gun propaganda in the media, alphabet agencies armed to the teeth, etc...

[Dreamliner]

On domestic drones, I'm predicting there will be lots of stinger missiles under Christmas trees this year.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

Well I'm sure there are numerous fantasy reasons like these that would trigger a civil war. Maybe an alien invasion too?

Even in an attempt to mock someone, you don't make any sense.

How would an alien invasion trigger a civil war?

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

Well I'm sure there are numerous fantasy reasons like these that would trigger a civil war. Maybe an alien invasion too?

AREA 51

[Matthanuf06]

Originally Posted by ChartsandGrafs

Even in an attempt to mock someone, you don't make any sense.

How would an alien invasion trigger a civil war?

Yeah it makes no sense. An alien invasion would be a dream scenario for the left in terms of government control. They'd be salivating over martial law.

Of course the aliens would just wipe us all out, so it would be moot.

[Dreamliner]

But an alien invasion would bring this country together. Aren't you people constantly wringing your hands about how we're so divided, as if that were a bad thing ?

[rpmGator]

When people see that their kids will get shot at for a change, the want for civil war will go away. Funny how one side never considers that all sides get people killed for real, when they talk this crap.

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by Matthanuf06

Yeah it makes no sense. An alien invasion would be a dream scenario for the left in terms of government control. They'd be salivating over martial law.

Of course the aliens would just wipe us all out, so it would be moot.

See that's the essentially problem with you guys. Your whole ethos is based on the idea that the "left" (or whoever) wants to take your guns and have the government control everything. You guys seem genuinly surprised when you meet resistance from actual people on the "left" to these notions you hold, but rather than mitigate your fears, its seems to further fuel the imagined conspiracy.

[Matthanuf06]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

See that's the essentially problem with you guys. Your whole ethos is based on the idea that the "left" (or whoever) wants to take your guns and have the government control everything. You guys seem genuinly surprised when you meet resistance from actual people on the "left" to these notions you hold, but rather than mitigate your fears, its seems to further fuel the imagined conspiracy.

By definition the left wants big government. And by definition that means control.