Passing Game

[njgator11]

Pretty simple concept, QB's need instincts and football IQ. Based on a full year of football, it is clear that is not a strength of JD. In high school you can out play guys by pure physicality and athletism, in college you cannot. No Gators want him not to succeed, but we all watched a qb that appeared to be a deer in the head lights. I can't recall a single time where he called an audible or changed anything at the line of scrimmage. There are a ton of qb's that have great arms, but not the great heads. the great ones have the great heads and the physicality (arm strength and running pocket presence/running ability if needed). notice one thing about Bama, none of his QB's are great athletes with great arms, they are typically coaches sons that have a high football IQ and get the ball to the playmakers based on what the d gives them.
One of the best comments on this thread was about SOS, he too requires a great deal of football IQ (see Terry Dean vs Danny Wuerfel). SOS would open up the spring with an open competition based on the way the QB position played this year. I do agree there were other limiting factors to our O, but it all starts with the QB. you will severly limit your offense if you don't have confidence that your qbwill make the right reads, that's clearly what we did this year.

[LAGatorDoc]

Originally Posted by UFish

And some players develop better than others. Some also develop faster. Maybe A&M did do it better than we did but they also lucked into a guy who will likely end his career as one of the all time greats in college football at their quarterback position. Marcus Mariota from Oregon wasn't highly rated either. We've had some lower star guys turn out quite well over the years. It just hasn't necessarily happened at positions of need. Trey Burton and Ahmad Black are prime examples.

I was calling out every player, not just one. They all need better execution on offense to be anywhere close to top notch. Seeing the Sugar, I would say o line blocking and QB reading of the defense/blitzes are most important at this stage

[Tolbert1906]

Originally Posted by dawny

coaches play their favorites

Usually the ones who perform the best are the ones who play. Coaches aren't going to play their favorites if other players are going to be more productive. One exception is when players aren't fulfilling expectations off the field.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Gator Country

[GatorSean]

I swear some of you have some short memories.

Does anybody remember the JSU game? And who played QB for us during that game? And what the results where?

Doesn't it seem strange, and almost impossible, that two of the highest rated QBs in the nation would come to the same school, and both just be craptacular, even against really bad defenses?

Isn't that pretty compelling evidence that the QB isn't the issue here??

[gator07]

Originally Posted by GatorSean

I swear some of you have some short memories.

Does anybody remember the JSU game? And who played QB for us during that game? And what the results where?

Doesn't it seem strange, and almost impossible, that two of the highest rated QBs in the nation would come to the same school, and both just be craptacular even against really bad defenses?

Isn't that pretty compelling evidence that the QB isn't the issue here??

I tend to agree with that. And it seems like Pease is a sharp guy and knows how to run an offense. Also our receivers arent great but theyre certainly good enough. To me the #1 issue is consistent pass protection.

[GatorByte]

Originally Posted by GatorSean

I swear some of you have some short memories.

Does anybody remember the JSU game? And who played QB for us during that game? And what the results where?

Doesn't it seem strange, and almost impossible, that two of the highest rated QBs in the nation would come to the same school, and both just be craptacular, even against really bad defenses?

Isn't that pretty compelling evidence that the QB isn't the issue here??

Two highly rated QBs coming out of the same recruiting class that both have very apparent ability ceilings is hardly "evidence" that the problems lie exclusively elsewhere. In fact, if you really believe that... you are going to be shown to be very wrong, probably as soon as next season.

Yes, the problems at O-line need to be addressed. It's very likely this will happen immediately. Yes, we need more talent at WR. It is nowhere near as bad at this position as some of you believe however. Every game I've been to this season I have seen WRs open in multiple types of play designs (including JSU).

Even when players are getting open with adequate pass protection, the QBs are simply not finding them and generally not making good decisions with the ball. This isn't Pease's fault. He was doing just fine before he got here. Real "evidence" tells me so.

Playing QB at the college level adequately doesn't necessarily require one to always have an outstanding line that affords all the time needed to produce a successful pass play. You must be able to read defense pre-snap, feel pressure/move around in the pocket, be able to count, and utimately make a decision with the damn ball that doesn't hurt the team's field position.

It's time we embrace the idea that we might not have that with Jeff or Jacoby.

[GatorSean]

Originally Posted by GatorByte

Two highly rated QBs coming out of the same recruiting class that both have very apparent ability ceilings is hardly "evidence" that the problems lie exclusively elsewhere. In fact, if you really believe that... you are going to be shown to be very wrong, probably as soon as next season.

Yes, the problems at O-line need to be addressed. It's very likely this will happen immediately. Yes, we need more talent at WR. It is nowhere near as bad at this position as some of you believe however. Every game I've been to this season I have seen WRs open in multiple types of play designs (including JSU).

Even when players are getting open with adequate pass protection, the QBs are simply not finding them and generally not making good decisions with the ball. This isn't Pease's fault. He was doing just fine before he got here. Real "evidence" tells me so.

Playing QB at the college level adequately doesn't necessarily require one to always have an outstanding line that affords all the time needed to produce a successful pass play. You must be able to read defense pre-snap, feel pressure/move around in the pocket, be able to count, and utimately make a decision with the damn ball that doesn't hurt the team's field position.

It's time we embrace the idea that we might not have that with Jeff or Jacoby.

Funny how you added the word 'exclusively' when I specifically italicized the word 'the' to designate the opposite. It's also curious that you are putting quotes around the word 'evidence'? Evidence isn't a fact. I'm not saying it's a fact that the QBs aren't the primary problem here. I am simply say we have evidence of such, and yes, the fact that TWO highly recruited QBs are having the same results IS evidence of such.

But anyway, if our WRs are getting open as often as you think, I wonder why our coaches found in necessary to take one of our best defensive players and start giving him offensive snaps at WR?

Yes, QB play definitely needs to improve. No one is denying that. But look, if the OL needs to improve and the WRs need to improve, I'm not sure how you can accurately judge the future performance of the QBs if every other aspect of the passing game is dismal.

[revthejedi]

I think Purifoy got snaps on O because the coaches think he is the type of athlete that can turn a 5 yard pass into a big play. Our current WRs haven't demonstrated that type of explosiveness. I don't think its an indictment against their ability to run routes and get open. From my seats in the Superdome we had WRs open that Jeff just didn't throw to. Just my .02

[GatorByte]

Originally Posted by GatorSean

Funny how you added the word 'exclusively' when I specifically italicized the word 'the' to designate the opposite. It's also curious that you are putting quotes around the word 'evidence'? Evidence isn't a fact. I'm not saying it's a fact that the QBs aren't the primary problem here. I am simply say we have evidence of such, and yes, the fact that TWO highly recruited QBs are having the same results IS evidence of such.

But anyway, if our WRs are getting open as often as you think, I wonder why our coaches found in necessary to take one of our best defensive players and start giving him offensive snaps at WR?

Yes, QB play definitely needs to improve. No one is denying that. But look, if the OL needs to improve and the WRs need to improve, I'm not sure how you can accurately judge the future performance of the QBs if every other aspect of the passing game is dismal.

I'll admit I missed the italicized word in your quote, but I still take issue with what you consider evidence here (along with your vagueness on specifically what this evidence points to). Evidence defined is something that furnishes proof... and in this case, I think you are being too subjective about what you think meets that standard. If you are going to throw the term evidence around, then you should probably stop remaining vague and provide more context to your previous statement: "Isn't that pretty compelling evidence that the QB isn't the issue here". Would you like to elaborate some?

Also, I never assigned a level to how often I "think" WRs are getting open. I stated that I have seen it (in person many times in fact) from my seats in the south end zone... and I'm certainly not the only one. I've seen it with both QBs, and I've seen it from different formations and during solid pass protection. I've seen it go completely unnoticed by both QBs, and on multiple occasions. You throwing the words "as often as you think" in there damn sure doesn't change that. One might even refer to it as visual evidence that they aren't getting it done, as it furnishes proof of such...

The OL is not going to be incredible on every snap of every passing play. It never is for any team. Yet other teams forge on with much higher productivity and have lesser-rated QBs at the helm. It is most certainly just my opinion, but Pease is not the issue. I also believe that fixing the O-line and upgrading at WR will not solve the problems either. That is the reality of where we are at. We have a long way to go on offense.

[GatorByte]

Originally Posted by revthejedi

I think Purifoy got snaps on O because the coaches think he is the type of athlete that can turn a 5 yard pass into a big play. Our current WRs haven't demonstrated that type of explosiveness. I don't think its an indictment against their ability to run routes and get open. From my seats in the Superdome we had WRs open that Jeff just didn't throw to. Just my .02

You are more than likely 100% correct. The fact that he returns kicks only serves to support that view. It hardly means that all of our existing WRs are not very good.

[GatorSean]

I am simply using the word evidence as grounds for a belief. It's not proof of anything, its not a fact. And I don't think I am being vague... I simply find it very difficult to believe that two different QBs AND two different OCs would have the exact same problems with the passing game.

I mean, two different QBs (3 if you count Brantley), 2 different OCs, and yet the passing game remains the same. What's the one constant here? The WRs been basically the same group of players for the last 3 years... they've been the one constant. If a problem remains consistent over a number of years, wouldn't it make sense that a position that has remained consistent in its players is then a large part of that problem?

[GatorByte]

Not to mention the fact that Purifoy hasn't been exactly getting a ton of reps at WR this season anyway. How many times has he been in total? A handful?

It is interesting that some want to bring up how likely it is that a small sample size group of two highly rated QBs under performing must be indicative of problems elsewhere (because of how highly they were both rated!), but the same people fail to realize how easily they dismiss a larger group of highly rated WRs in the same equation.

Let's look at the Rivals ranking of the groups:

QBs

Jeff Driskel: ****
Jacoby Brissett: ****


WRs

Frankie Hammond Jr: ****
Andre Debose: *****
Latroy Pittman: ****
Quinton Dunbar: ****
Solomon Patton: ****


So it is somehow easier to believe that 5 guys with these kind of rankings can conceivably not work out the way we wanted, but improbable to believe the same about 2 guys at another position?

[GatorSean]

"A wide receiver needs to step up: Florida’s passing offense has been anemic this season, partly because of protection problems and a young quarterback, but mainly because the wide receivers have been ineffective for the third season in a row. TE Jordan Reed is the No. 1 option (team-high 44 catches) and no wide receiver has caught more than 31 passes. Offensive coordinator Brent Pease said freshmen WRs Latroy Pittman and Raphael Andrades, who have combined for just four catches, have improved during the bowl practices in Gainesville. The coaching staff is hoping they can do something similar to what CB Loucheiz Purifoy did last December. He was impressive during the bowl practices, played well in the TaxSlayer.com Gator Bowl, and became a starter and key part of this year’s defense. There is no other position on the team that needs someone to emerge more than receiver. "

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigeast/tag/_/name/brent-pease

Again, there has only been ONE position that has had basically the same players for the last three years. It's not QB. It's not RB. It's not the OL. What's that leave?

We've had a bad passing offense for 3 years now. We've had different OCs. Different QBs. Different RBs. But the WRs have been basically the same. I guess that's just a strange coincidence.

[GatorByte]

Originally Posted by GatorSean

"A wide receiver needs to step up: Florida’s passing offense has been anemic this season, partly because of protection problems and a young quarterback, but mainly because the wide receivers have been ineffective for the third season in a row. TE Jordan Reed is the No. 1 option (team-high 44 catches) and no wide receiver has caught more than 31 passes. Offensive coordinator Brent Pease said freshmen WRs Latroy Pittman and Raphael Andrades, who have combined for just four catches, have improved during the bowl practices in Gainesville. The coaching staff is hoping they can do something similar to what CB Loucheiz Purifoy did last December. He was impressive during the bowl practices, played well in the TaxSlayer.com Gator Bowl, and became a starter and key part of this year’s defense. There is no other position on the team that needs someone to emerge more than receiver. "

http://espn.go.com/blog/bigeast/tag/_/name/brent-pease

Again, there has only been ONE position that has had basically the same players for the last three years. It's not QB. It's not RB. It's not the OL. What's that leave?

We've had a bad passing offense for 3 years now. We've had different OCs. Different QBs. Different RBs. But the WRs have been basically the same. I guess that's just a strange coincidence.

So you quote an ESPN article by Michael DiRocco with Brent Pease's name tagged that was the No. 2 point in a Sugar Bowl write-up to prove your point? Seriously?

The WRs that have been "basically the same" are Frankie Hammond (class of 2008), Quinton Dunbar, and Solomon Patton (both class of 2010). Hell the 2 guys mentioned in the article as improving by Pease, both Andrades and Pittman, are class of 2012. What are you talking about?

Before Brissett and Driskel, the guys that were here (except Hammond) only had John Brantley throwing to them. That is hardly a constant. Hammond had Tebow throwing in 2009, but was behind Riley Cooper on a team that included David Nelson and Deonte Thompson.

Pease has been here one season. LT will be fixed this year and the line should improve. We will have new and old blood at WR, and some new backs and TE blocking. Hopefully the QB position will improve, so that I don't have to look forward to your face-saving excuses.

New WRs are not going to help either QB learn to recognize a blitz, call an audible, or move around in the pocket. We will never beat elite teams (edit: for championships) until we have someone who can do all of these things.

EDIT: I forgot to include Andre Debose (class of 2009), but even I can admit he is indeed a non-factor.

[GatorSean]

Originally Posted by GatorByte

So you quote an ESPN article by Michael DiRocco with Brent Pease's name tagged that was the No. 2 point in a Sugar Bowl write-up to prove your point? Seriously?

The WRs that have been "basically the same" are Frankie Hammond (class of 2008), Quinton Dunbar, and Solomon Patton (both class of 2010). Hell the 2 guys mentioned in the article as improving by Pease, both Andrades and Pittman, are class of 2012. What are you talking about?

Before Brissett and Driskel, the guys that were here (except Hammond) only had John Brantley throwing to them. That is hardly a constant. Hammond had Tebow throwing in 2009, but was behind Riley Cooper on a team that included David Nelson and Deonte Thompson.

Pease has been here one season. LT will be fixed this year and the line should improve. We will have new and old blood at WR, and some new backs and TE blocking. Hopefully the QB position will improve, so that I don't have to look forward to your face-saving excuses.

New WRs are not going to help either QB learn to recognize a blitz, call an audible, or move around in the pocket. We will never beat elite teams (edit: for championships) until we have someone who can do all of these things.

EDIT: I forgot to include Andre Debose (class of 2009), but even I can admit he is indeed a non-factor.

Not sure I understand you're hostility in all of this. I'm not trying to prove anything (this isn't even provable, so I'm not sure what YOU'RE talking about). I'm just stating my opinion and I'm sorry you're having so much trouble understanding it.

Of course Brantley wasn't a constant. The QB position hasn't be constant. THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT. 3 different QBs. 2 different OCs. Passing game sucks throughout. To conclude its the QBs fault through all of this is a fallacy. Hammond, Hines, and Debose have been here through those years. Correct? So 3 of the 4 or 5 WRs who got significant playing time have been a constant. Not sure why that is confusing?

And yes, WRs are indeed helpful to QBs in seeing blitzes. The WR also has to recognize the blitz and run the hot route. Since you apparently don't even understand this, its no wonder you think you see WRs running open.

Not sure what 'face saving excuses' you're talking about either. I guess nobody is allowed to have a different opinion than you on what our primary offensive problems are. I'll leave it at that so you can get back to your imaginary football expertise.

[GatorByte]

Originally Posted by GatorSean

Not sure I understand you're hostility in all of this. I'm not trying to prove anything (this isn't even provable, so I'm not sure what YOU'RE talking about). I'm just stating my opinion and I'm sorry you're having so much trouble understanding it.

Of course Brantley wasn't a constant. The QB position hasn't be constant. THAT'S THE ENTIRE POINT. 3 different QBs. 2 different OCs. Passing game sucks throughout. To conclude its the QBs fault through all of this is a fallacy. Hammond, Hines, and Debose have been here through those years. Correct? So 3 of the 4 or 5 WRs who got significant playing time have been a constant. Not sure why that is confusing?

And yes, WRs are indeed helpful to QBs in seeing blitzes. The WR also has to recognize the blitz and run the hot route. Since you apparently don't even understand this, its no wonder you think you see WRs running open.

Not sure what 'face saving excuses' you're talking about either. I guess nobody is allowed to have a different opinion than you on what our primary offensive problems are. I'll leave it at that so you can get back to your imaginary football expertise.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about, and you need a better understanding of a hot route. A hot route is virtually always initiated by the QB as a response to a defensive alignment. Yes, it involves a WR... but you obviously aren't clear on a whole lot more than that judging by what you typed.

I personally don't give a rat's ass what opinion you have. You still aren't entitled to make up facts. I'm certainly not going to waste any more time on you after that terrible post either. All you do is obfuscate when you get challenged.

You haven't seen any real hostility either, so get over yourself (and learn how to use possessive adjectives).

[njgator11]

I don't want to get in between the two of you, but I am very concerned about our QB position going into next year. I will be extremely disappointed if there is not an open competition as no one has proven to be a top flight qb yet. I do think the lack of qb talent (that includes mental talent for the position) is the primary weakness and the reason CWM would like to run the ball on every play. There is no trust with the qb position, becasue they are not recognizing d's and making the correct adjustents and calls. if forces us to become predictable. we have struggled at the qb position for the last 3 years because Brantley was a pocet passer in the wrong offense and now we have a runing qb in a passing offense. I don't care who they pt in, I just want someone who can manage the offense and be a coach on the field, I haven't seen that from the qb's on our roster who have played thus far.

[GATORAZ]

Originally Posted by njgator11

I don't want to get in between the two of you, but I am very concerned about our QB position going into next year. I will be extremely disappointed if there is not an open competition as no one has proven to be a top flight qb yet. I do think the lack of qb talent (that includes mental talent for the position) is the primary weakness and the reason CWM would like to run the ball on every play. There is no trust with the qb position, becasue they are not recognizing d's and making the correct adjustents and calls. if forces us to become predictable. we have struggled at the qb position for the last 3 years because Brantley was a pocet passer in the wrong offense and now we have a runing qb in a passing offense. I don't care who they pt in, I just want someone who can manage the offense and be a coach on the field, I haven't seen that from the qb's on our roster who have played thus far.

what do you think about the OL and the WR's?

[themistocles]

Shouldn't this thread have been titled:

"Lack of Passing Game"

[ufngineer]

Originally Posted by themistocles

Shouldn't this thread have been titled:

"Lack of Passing Game"

or "ineffective" passing game.. Hope they work the kinks out next season.