More than 100 pedophiles caught in sting

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by AndyGator

Actually everything I have read indicates they cannot be reformed. What an atrocious and disgusting affliction.

You've touched on another thing here. If its an affliction, with no hope of reform, then its not really a behavioral choice. Our system of justice depends on the idea that people can make choices between right and wrong, so what to do with these people, who apparenty are unable to?

[reformedgator]

Although sexual deviancy in any form is a very destructive & extremely compelling behavior, you have to hope that there can be a redemptive change.

[OaktownGator]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

You've touched on another thing here. If its an affliction, with no hope of reform, then its not really a behavioral choice. Our system of justice depends on the idea that people can make choices between right and wrong, so what to do with these people, who apparenty are unable to?

Perhaps there is an affliction involved wrt their attraction to kids, and maybe that affliction is not something they can overcome. I don't know.

But they have a choice as to whether to act on it, and abuse kids... much as married people have a choice as to whether to act on sexual attractions they have to people other than their spouse.

A person who cheats on their spouse with a consenting adult makes a bad choice.

A person who sexually abuses children makes an illegal choice, and should be treated as a criminal. IMO.

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by OaktownGator

Perhaps there is an affliction involved wrt their attraction to kids, and maybe that affliction is not something they can overcome. I don't know.

But they have a choice as to whether to act on it, and abuse kids... much as married people have a choice as to whether to act on sexual attractions they have to people other than their spouse.

A person who cheats on their spouse with a consenting adult makes a bad choice.

A person who sexually abuses children makes an illegal choice, and should be treated as a criminal. IMO.

You're right, and we don't punish adultery through the legal system (directly) or treat cheaters with the same scorn we do pedophiles, because we consider them bad choices, but not really illegal ones. Some legal systems do though, those are "illegal choices" in say, Afghanistan. I'm not going to make the leap and say that pedophiles should be treated like people who cheat on their spouses, but they are both choices toward acting on what are apparently desires & attractions that aren't real choices, at the expense of deeply held social conventions.

[brainstorm]

I don't buy that. You can have desires without taking inappropriate actions.

I can be attracted to a beautiful lady who passes my on the sidewalk without raping her.
I can admire my neighbor's new car without stealing it.
I can get angry at a co-worker without killing him.

If you have a sexual attraction to kids, you're sick and need some sort of help. You don't have to act upon the urges.

[northgagator]

Originally Posted by brainstorm

If you have a sexual attraction to kids, you're sick and need some sort of help. You don't have to act upon the urges.

If thinking or desiring of illegal or immoral action were felonies than almost everyone who was born in this planet would need a jail cell.

Do we know if this condition something that a person is born with or is it inflected or chosen?

Answer: It matters so that society can find a way to reduce or eleminate this sickness.

Is screening for pedophilia (if possible) and enforcing treatment or confinement of suspected pedophiles a solution?

Answer: It matters if we value our children. Yet some people will object and used the courts to let them walk the streets.

Why do our local governments pick up stray dogs, keep them for a period if time, place them for adoption, and if necessary put them down?

Answer: For the safety of the community.

What is our biggest fear? A stray dog or a pedophile on the streets.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by northgagator

If thinking or desiring of illegal or immoral action were felonies than almost everyone who was born in this planet would need a jail cell.

Do we know if this condition something that a person is born with or is it inflected or chosen?

Answer: It matters so that society can find a way to reduce or elementary this sickness.

Is screening for pedophilia (if possible) and enforcing treatment or confinement of suspected pedophiles a solution?

Answer: It matters if we value our children. Yet some people will object and used the courts to let them walk the streets.

Why do our local governments pick up stray dogs, keep them for a period if time, place them for adoption, and if necessary put them down?

Answer: For the safety of the community.

What is our biggest fear? A stray dog or a pedophile on the streets.

Sure, screen for all potential crimes and punish prior to their inevitable act.

Let me give Philip K. Dick a call real quick ...

[northgagator]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

Sure, screen for all potential crimes and punish prior to their inevitable act.

Let me give Philip K. Dick a call real quick ...

Who said punish?

I said

enforcing treatment or confinement

I can see that there is some ambiguity in my statement and I apologize for that.

Getting treatment is not necessarily the same thing as punishment.

However, you do bring up an interesting point.
Should a person who is diagnosed with having the potential of being a pedohphile be made to take mandatory treatment and or confinement until they are deemed not a threat to society.

But this opens up a can of worms:
1, What is a proven/accurate screening method to be used for the diagnosis?
2, What is a proven/accurate treatment plan after a diagnosis?
3, How do we determine if a person is or is not a threat to society thus needing mandatory confinement?
4, Why should pediophilia be treated any different that other mental illnesses when a person is allowed to be released back into society?
5, Is chemical castration a moral option when making it conditional for a pediophile to be release back into society?

As for my self I do not have the answers to all of the above questions. I am still pondering over some of them.

There is precedence here for answering yes to some of the above questions:
1, The obivious one here is when a person openly admits that they need help and thus volunteer for treatment and or confinement.
2, Another obivious one is when a pedophile is caught red handed in the act. Hardly anyone will question most mandatory treatment or confinement.
3, There is evidence that chemical castration maybe an effective treatment for a pediofile. However there critical groups (Amnesty International) have campaigned against this method (when forced/mandatory) saying that this method is too drastic.

One last question:
Should chemical castration be made a mandatory condition for a pediophile before he is released back into society?

Forced or involuntary sterilisation raises serious human rights concerns, particularly with regard to the rights to bodily integrity, health, privacy, family life, and discrimination (including the right to decide on the number and spacing of one's children). It is difficult to imagine any likely context in which either forced or involuntary sterilisation would be justified. The only caveat would be in a situation where a person's life is in imminent danger and that person is incapable of giving consent to the procedure.

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/in...61/014/2011/en

Another report on Chemical Castration:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/05/health...nce/index.html

[busigator96]

Originally Posted by brainstorm

I don't buy that. You can have desires without taking inappropriate actions.

I can be attracted to a beautiful lady who passes my on the sidewalk without raping her.
I can admire my neighbor's new car without stealing it.
I can get angry at a co-worker without killing him.

If you have a sexual attraction to kids, you're sick and need some sort of help. You don't have to act upon the urges.

Is help available under obamacare?

[Gatorpika]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

Our system of justice depends on the idea that people can make choices between right and wrong, so what to do with these people, who apparenty are unable to?

Not really. It depends on whether a person is competent enough to understand the concept of right and wrong. If they are, then they can make a choice even if they are compelled to do something. Many serial killers are obviously compelled to kill because their brains are wired differently, but they are still incarcerated or put to death because the court determined that they had the competence to prevent themselves from committing those acts.

[wiene2003]

Originally Posted by northgagator

Who said punish?

I said

I can see that there is some ambiguity in my statement and I apologize for that.

Getting treatment is not necessarily the same thing as punishment.

However, you do bring up an interesting point.
Should a person who is diagnosed with having the potential of being a pedohphile be made to take mandatory treatment and or confinement until they are deemed not a threat to society.

But this opens up a can of worms:
1, What is a proven/accurate screening method to be used for the diagnosis?
2, What is a proven/accurate treatment plan after a diagnosis?
3, How do we determine if a person is or is not a threat to society thus needing mandatory confinement?
4, Why should pediophilia be treated any different that other mental illnesses when a person is allowed to be released back into society?
5, Is chemical castration a moral option when making it conditional for a pediophile to be release back into society?

As for my self I do not have the answers to all of the above questions. I am still pondering over some of them.

There is precedence here for answering yes to some of the above questions:
1, The obivious one here is when a person openly admits that they need help and thus volunteer for treatment and or confinement.
2, Another obivious one is when a pedophile is caught red handed in the act. Hardly anyone will question most mandatory treatment or confinement.
3, There is evidence that chemical castration maybe an effective treatment for a pediofile. However there critical groups (Amnesty International) have campaigned against this method (when forced/mandatory) saying that this method is too drastic.

One last question:
Should chemical castration be made a mandatory condition for a pediophile before he is released back into society?

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/in...61/014/2011/en

Another report on Chemical Castration:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/05/health...nce/index.html

Hold up, let me make sure I read you right. Are you suggesting the possibility of screening people to see if they could potentially be pedophiles and then chemically castrating them? Even if no law has been broken? Just from a 'screening'?

[northgagator]

Originally Posted by wiene2003

Hold up, let me make sure I read you right. Are you suggesting the possibility of screening people to see if they could potentially be pedophiles and then chemically castrating them? Even if no law has been broken? Just from a 'screening'?

Sorry for causing some confusion or uneasiness.

I am posing thought provoking questions.
As for chemical castration of pedophiles who are identified in the screening process, I was implying in the scenario that it would be voluntary and not mandated.

However your reply generates a new thought provoking question.

Should pedophiles who are identified in the screening process face voluntary mandatory chemical castration?

All I am doing is putting as many option on the table as possible.

What is your opinion?

[wiene2003]

Originally Posted by northgagator

Sorry for causing some confusion or uneasiness.

I am posing thought provoking questions.
As for chemical castration of pedophiles who are identified in the screening process, I was implying in the scenario that it would be voluntary and not mandated.

However your reply generates a new thought provoking question.

Should pedophiles who are identified in the screening process face voluntary mandatory chemical castration?

All I am doing is putting as many option on the table as possible.

What is your opinion?

Voluntary? Well I'm the kind of person who thinks adults should be able to do just about whatever they want to themselves as long as it doesn't affect others, so if someone is down with that, by all means, let em. But I don't know what you mean by voluntary mandatory chemical castration, probably a mistype.

I'm just not sure there would be any reliable screening process that could identify potential pedophiles and even if there were, are you going to screen everyone? Seems like a very slippery slope too. Come up with a screening process for every potential criminal. Or what about someone who is identified as someone who is a 'potential' pedophile but in reality, isn't one at all? What will the label do to them and how would it affect their lives?

I think the best solutions are awareness and education of parents and kids and proper punishment of those who actually commit crimes. I cant think of a way to prevent these types of crimes without violating the rights of many innocent citizens.

[northgagator]

[quote="wiene2003"]
Voluntary? Well I'm the kind of person who thinks adults should be able to do just about whatever they want to themselves as long as it doesn't affect others, so if someone is down with that, by all means, let em. But I don't know what you mean by voluntary mandatory chemical castration, probably a mistype.

[Tebowism0823]

Having a background of sexual abuse I will tell you most people don't even realize how common it is. People are so naive to the thought that it must be a stranger doing these awful things when in fact the % shows that most sexual abuse is done by a family member. Society has become so accustomed to music, videos, and movies portraying sexual references and activities and then act surprised when these things happen. Unfortunately this sort of thing will never go away. The laws they have in place are a complete joke. When a 18 year old kid has Sex with a consenting 16 year old, they are tried and classified as the same as if it was a 50 year old preying on a child. I to believe this is not something that can be mentally fixed. When an adult is able to sexually molest a child something is seriously wrong with them. There's so much fear about sex offenders in neighborhoods that its out of hand. If you're that afraid then they don't belong out in the first place. No amount of force or money is going to cut down on these things from happening. When this happens, there needs to be a place to send them and be done with it. They have most likely stolen that child's life both mentally and physically.

[northgagator]

Originally Posted by wiene2003

Voluntary? Well I'm the kind of person who thinks adults should be able to do just about whatever they want to themselves as long as it doesn't affect others, so if someone is down with that, by all means, let em. But I don't know what you mean by voluntary mandatory chemical castration, probably a mistype.

Typing on a phone sucks for me. Yep, it was a typo. I intended to say "voluntarily".

Thanks for the input too.

Originally Posted by wiene2003

I'm just not sure there would be any reliable screening process that could identify potential pedophiles

That is a good question!

Originally Posted by wiene2003

And even if there were, are you going to screen everyone? Seems like a very slippery slope too.

My concern too

Originally Posted by wiene2003

Come up with a screening process for every potential criminal. Or what about someone who is identified as someone who is a 'potential' pedophile but in reality, isn't one at all? What will the label do to them and how would it affect their lives?

Good point.
That would be one hell of a scarlet letter!
Could be grounds for a good size slander suit.

Originally Posted by wiene2003

i think the best solutions are awareness and education of parents and kids and proper punishment of those who actually commit crimes.

I agree with awareness and education.
However a long term pedophiles uses the grooming technique to seduce the victim. Also in most case the pedophiles is a family friend or member. They are very predatory like a crocodile.
What is your definition of proper punishment.

Question: if there is no doubt that a pedophile crime had been committed by the accused then are you for mandatory chemical castration before the guilty party can walk the streets again?

Originally Posted by wiene2003

I cant think of a way to prevent these types of crimes without violating the rights of many innocent citizens.

Are you referring to the pedophile who was never ycaught or the one that strikes again after getting paroled or serving their term?

[rpmGator]

Were all of them Penn State grads...

Seriously, it is good they do these stings and one of the things cops should be doing to protect the next victim from happening.

[northgagator]

Originally Posted by Tebowism0823

Having a background of sexual abuse I will tell you most people don't even realize how common it is. People are so naive to the thought that it must be a stranger doing these awful things when in fact the % shows that most sexual abuse is done by a family member. Society has become so accustomed to music, videos, and movies portraying sexual references and activities and then act surprised when these things happen. Unfortunately this sort of thing will never go away. The laws they have in place are a complete joke. When a 18 year old kid has Sex with a consenting 16 year old, they are tried and classified as the same as if it was a 50 year old preying on a child. I to believe this is not something that can be mentally fixed. When an adult is able to sexually molest a child something is seriously wrong with them. There's so much fear about sex offenders in neighborhoods that its out of hand. If you're that afraid then they don't belong out in the first place. No amount of force or money is going to cut down on these things from happening. When this happens, there needs to be a place to send them and be done with it. They have most likely stolen that child's life both mentally and physically.

+1

By the way my grand mother was barely 16 when she married my grandfather was almost 30. But that was back in 1915. Times and circumstance were different back then. They had 13 children and were married 50 years when she died,

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by northgagator

Who said punish?

You did.

[northgagator]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

You did.

OBOB,

Here is the quote I think you are referring to:

Is screening for pedophilia (if possible) and enforcing treatment or confinement of suspected pedophiles a solution?

Answer: It matters if we value our children. Yet some people will object and used the courts to let them walk the streets.

Please note I did not say what you posted.
You only listed one option (enforced confinement) but not the other option (enforced treatment). You should not split/parse a statement to make mean what you want it to.

I understand your statement about enforce confinement. Actually I feel the same way. That us why I included enforced treatment.

However there is a precedent for enforced confinement diagnoses for people diagnosed with mental illness when a crime was not committed. When the proper procedures are followed the mentally ill can be confined against their will. This done for the protection of the mentally ill person and society.

A common reason given for involuntary commitment is to prevent danger to the individual or society. People with suicidal thoughts may act on these thoughts and harm or kill themselves. People with psychoses are occasionally driven by their delusions or hallucinations to harm themselves or others. People with certain types of personality disorders can occasionally present a danger to themselves or others.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary_commitment

The other alternative is enforced treatment. There is a precedent there too. Many drug addicts are given court ordered drug rehab. Also in times of epidemics people are quarantined and or vaccinated. Also to enroll in public schools, the military, and to travel you have to have your inoculations up to date.