The issues for being left of center...Now...

[Dreamliner]

Offhand, I'd venture that government needs to stop ravaging the people. No entity rings its hands about inequality more, and does more to effect it, than government.

[gatordowneast]

Originally Posted by gator996

No, wasteful spending is a trait of both parties...


Trying to justify wasteful spending on one side while criticizing it on the other side is what smacks of partisanship...

BTW - When did medicare part D, 2 wars, and the bush tax cuts become defense spending to protect my ass?

Medicare part D was a mistake. The Bush tax cuts were implemented following the death of 3,000 Americans and the destruction of $20 B of our property and the layoff of over 100,000 employees in the NY,NJ, CT area alone and the fear of our economy tanking. Second round was initiated to get the economy growing. It was a huge mistake to take so many off the tax rolls. They became renters rather than owners.

The wars were a result of our country being attacked. If you want to pull up the list of demo senators who voted along with the pubs, to go to war, have at it. Those privy to the information Bush was, voted to go. Iraq was a mistake for the reason given (WMD) but for the sake of the 4,000 who gave their lives and thousands of others maimed and injured and the 22 M Iraqs who are no longer ruled by a tyrant and now have a chance...maybe not.

[Dreamliner]

Good point, Afghanistan and Iraq were Obama wars.

[jimgata]

The left's idea of a cut is to say, we were going to increase speneing by 10% , now we will increase it by 8% and look at the savings.. That is their idea of a cut in spending. That is what I said earlier, they are too damn immatute to govern. They refuse to look at the problem realistically and seem to think that words and promises will solve a problem.

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

Offhand, I'd venture that government needs to stop ravaging the people. No entity rings its hands about inequality more, and does more to effect it, than government.

They have a strong interest in keeping inequality because without it the Democrats will be out of power.

[gator996]

Originally Posted by gatordowneast

Medicare part D was a mistake. The Bush tax cuts were implemented following the death of 3,000 Americans and the destruction of $20 B of our property and the layoff of over 100,000 employees in the NY,NJ, CT area alone and the fear of our economy tanking. Second round was initiated to get the economy growing. It was a huge mistake to take so many off the tax rolls. They became renters rather than owners.

The wars were a result of our country being attacked. If you want to pull up the list of demo senators who voted along with the pubs, to go to war, have at it. Those privy to the information Bush was, voted to go. Iraq was a mistake for the reason given (WMD) but for the sake of the 4,000 who gave their lives and thousands of others maimed and injured and the 22 M Iraqs who are no longer ruled by a tyrant and now have a chance...maybe not.

So the tax cuts were "bad"?

Trying to justify the war effort is irrelevant to this discussion...

Was it irresponsible to keep the war "off the books" or not?




.

[gator996]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

Good point, Afghanistan and Iraq were Obama wars.

Yeah I suppose so since he actually accounted for it in the federal budget.


Fiscal irresponsibility by Bush or not?

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by gator996

Yeah I suppose so since he actually accounted for it in the federal budget.


Fiscal irresponsibility by Bush or not?

Wait, there is a budget?

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by jimgata

The left's idea of a cut is to say, we were going to increase speneing by 10% , now we will increase it by 8% and look at the savings.. That is their idea of a cut in spending. That is what I said earlier, they are too damn immatute to govern. They refuse to look at the problem realistically and seem to think that words and promises will solve a problem.

Yep. Though the pubs will just increase it at 6% and say look at the savings...

[gator996]

What amuses me here is the inability or desire to look at those 8 questions individually and answer with your own personal belief...

You can take the discussion anywhere you like...I'm good with it

But its rather apparent that with only general statements about spending to rely on you can believe stuff like only $15B in cuts have been agreed to...when the "other" $900B is brought up then it becomes that none of those are cuts anyway.

When discussing equal pay...you can't use data

When discussing fiscal irresponsibility...only the left do it even though in your explanation medicare part d was wrong, the cuts were wrong, and somehow Obama started the 2 wars.....

[gator996]

Originally Posted by gatorman_07732

Wait, there is a budget?

Yes there is....

Here's 2012 & 2013 for you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Un...federal_budget

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Un...federal_budget

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by gator996

What amuses me here is the inability or desire to look at those 8 questions individually and answer with your own personal belief...

You can take the discussion anywhere you like...I'm good with it

But its rather apparent that with only general statements about spending to rely on you can believe stuff like only $15B in cuts have been agreed to...when the "other" $900B is brought up then it becomes that none of those are cuts anyway.

When discussing equal pay...you can't use data

When discussing fiscal irresponsibility...only the left do it even though in your explanation medicare part d was wrong, the cuts were wrong, and somehow Obama started the 2 wars.....

What is equal pay to you?

Is it equal pay for two people to graduate with a technical degree and get paid two vastly different salaries because one business does not offer the same compensation as the other?

We paid one of our assistants (only half way done with a technical degree) more than they would have made in our area if they had a full degree right out of school and paid to get them certified. Is it discrimination to those that come out with a technical degree who are not compensated as much?

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by gator996

Yes there is....

Here's 2012 & 2013 for you

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Un...federal_budget

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Un...federal_budget

You do know how insincere you're being right? The Senate has not passed any budget in over three years. Those were budget as a result of the Budget Control Act of 2011 as a result of a deal the raise the debt celing.

[jimgata]

41 to one, tax increases to cuts. What a world.
Have we even thought of tax increases coming from payroll taxes and obamacare.
spin on!
Bend over and touch your toes, inept politicians will show you where failure goes.

[madgator]

Originally Posted by gatorman_07732

Wait, there is a budget?

Incredible how hypocritical those who criticize anything regarding a Bush budget but are completely silent regarding the fact that Obama doesn't even pass a budget.


in light of this, how can they consider themselves to have any credibility?

[108]

Originally Posted by gatordowneast

Medicare part D was a mistake. The Bush tax cuts were implemented following the death of 3,000 Americans and the destruction of $20 B of our property and the layoff of over 100,000 employees in the NY,NJ, CT area alone and the fear of our economy tanking. Second round was initiated to get the economy growing. It was a huge mistake to take so many off the tax rolls. They became renters rather than owners.

The wars were a result of our country being attacked. If you want to pull up the list of demo senators who voted along with the pubs, to go to war, have at it. Those privy to the information Bush was, voted to go. Iraq was a mistake for the reason given (WMD) but for the sake of the 4,000 who gave their lives and thousands of others maimed and injured and the 22 M Iraqs who are no longer ruled by a tyrant and now have a chance...maybe not.

Bush tax cuts were passed in June of 2001

And im going to take a wild guess and bet that you don't excuse the Obama stimulus following the worst economic meltdown since the Great Depression

[gatordowneast]

Originally Posted by gator996

So the tax cuts were "bad"?

Trying to justify the war effort is irrelevant to this discussion...

Was it irresponsible to keep the war "off the books" or not?




.

Did I say the tax cuts were bad? Couldn't find where I claimed that. You brought up the wars as a question of them saving your "ass" and I would say yes, the wars saved all of our asses. One suitcase nuke and our economy would have been destroyed and you may be back in class for a masters in primitive culture.

Whether the war was off the books or not is irrelevant. The costs still got added to the deficits under Bush and those deficits ran $200 B to $400 B including the war costs. Outrageously high to all of us at the time. Yet Obama runs $200 B deficits some months and $400 B is a quarterly loss for this lightweight.

[Dreamliner]

I predict worsening inequality as a result of the government's obsession with eradicating inequality.

[gator996]

Originally Posted by gatordowneast

Did I say the tax cuts were bad? Couldn't find where I claimed that. You brought up the wars as a question of them saving your "ass" and I would say yes, the wars saved all of our asses. One suitcase nuke and our economy would have been destroyed and you may be back in class for a masters in primitive culture.

Whether the war was off the books or not is irrelevant. The costs still got added to the deficits under Bush and those deficits ran $200 B to $400 B including the war costs. Outrageously high to all of us at the time. Yet Obama runs $200 B deficits some months and $400 B is a quarterly loss for this lightweight.

Wrong again....


Stop conducting the war off the books
Jane Harman
Published 4:00 am, Friday, January 12, 2007


http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/openfo...ks-2624023.php

"Bush has funded the war in Iraq and the broader "war on terror" almost entirely through "emergency supplemental" appropriations bills -- in other words, off the books. Ninety-three percent of the approximately $507 billion appropriated for the war in Iraq has come through such bills, and the president is reportedly set to ask for another $100 billion in "emergency" funds in February to cover costs.

By designating budget requests as "emergencies," the president and the former Republican-led Congresses placed them on a legislative fast-track. Congress had little opportunity to ask tough questions about how these funds were being spent, and little opportunity to strip out offending items -- including a litany of earmarks and other domestic spending that had nothing to do with the war.

Calling these funding requests "emergencies" also automatically exempts them from spending caps. The president can thus claim that more than $500 billion in recent spending is not part of the deficit. Nonsense.

By doing so, the true costs of the war are not understood in relation to the other programs that are shortchanged to pay for it -- including providing veteran's benefits to the 22,714 American servicemen and women wounded in the war, funding the chronically underfunded No Child Left Behind education law, paying for affordable housing for Hurricane Katrina victims and investing in clean energy.

[Gatoragman]

So if the Bush tax cuts were bad and gave us great deficits now that Obama has extended them twice have they magically become a necessity to the struggling ecomony?
And now they are good?