Neocons

[Burke]

This is not a subject I know a lot about, but there is a growing belief among some Objectivists that neocons are a greater threat than leftists. In a private email, I asked one who sometimes writes for a national publication if she thought this was true.

Her response,

"Yes, absolutely. No one mistakes a leftist, and leftists do not really undermine the ideological cohesion of the right. Neocons are dangerous precisely because they are so well-camouflaged and work covertly to undermine us. They are literally experts at it."

My first thoughts about this were to recall how harshly Krauthammer and Kristol savaged the Tea Party members of Congress on the debt hike fight a couple of years ago.

[cocodrilo]

The result of the 2000 election was a neocon coup. Dubya probably didn't know what a neocon was till he became their puppet and invaded Iraq for them. Yes, I would say they are dangerous.

[Dreamliner]

The neocons are still in the White House. They've just won a fourth term.

[GatorAvatar]

Originally Posted by cocodrilo

The result of the 2000 election was a neocon coup. Dubya probably didn't know what a neocon was till he became their puppet and invaded Iraq for them. Yes, I would say they are dangerous.

I have always told my liberal friends that George Bush is not a bad person. Bush is a decent human being comfortable with Latinos, blacks and he raised a beautiful family and his wife is AMAZING. Bush was probably threatened by Cheney, Rove and the other neocons to toe their line or they would probably destroy his presidency.

[Minister_of_Information]

Anything that can unite you guys in opposition has my enthusiastic approval.

[DSRrg]

I dont want to sound like an idiot but can someone give me an actual definition of what a "neocon" is?

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by DSRrg

I dont want to sound like an idiot but can someone give me an actual definition of what a "neocon" is?

I gather that the official definition is a Republican who likes wars, as distinct from a Democrat who likes wars.

[Jaggator]

neoconservative- a conservative who advocates the assertive promotion of democracy and United States national interest in international affairs including through military means.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by Jaggator

neoconservative- a conservative who advocates the assertive promotion of democracy and United States national interest in international affairs including through military means.

Of course we've been doing this for the better part of a century now. It's just that about twenty years ago Republicans decided it was their turn to start doing it.

[wargunfan]

Originally Posted by Jaggator

neoconservative- a conservative who advocates the assertive promotion of democracy and United States national interest in international affairs including through military means.

Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, FDR, JFK, LBJ were neocons. Who knew? And now we have Bushbama.

[Burke]

I once heard Limbaugh say that a neocons are always Jewish. I've gotten the impression that they are mostly former leftists, as Krauthammer is.

[JohnC1908]

Lulz, this is a real email? I can't imagine living in a world of such paranoia.

[Minister_of_Information]

Mostly neoconservatives are disaffected leftists who embraced Reagan (himself a former leftist) and his cold warrior and anti-statist agenda for anti-totalitarian reasons. Basically they fell out of love with the idea of the state as the primary means of improving society, while reconnecting with the radical liberalism of the founding. David Horowitz is an exemplar but there are many others. They believe that liberal society (liberal in the sense of liberty rather than necessarily policy) must be forcefully defended, and to a lesser extent, spread forcefully as an antidote to totalitarianism.

Interestingly enough, I'm reading a book by Paul Berman at present that deals with the European incarnation of this very phenomenon: the shifting politics of the '68 radicals.

[g8orbill]

Originally Posted by Burke

This is not a subject I know a lot about, but there is a growing belief among some Objectivists that neocons are a greater threat than leftists. In a private email, I asked one who sometimes writes for a national publication if she thought this was true.

Her response,

"Yes, absolutely. No one mistakes a leftist, and leftists do not really undermine the ideological cohesion of the right. Neocons are dangerous precisely because they are so well-camouflaged and work covertly to undermine us. They are literally experts at it."

My first thoughts about this were to recall how harshly Krauthammer and Kristol savaged the Tea Party members of Congress on the debt hike fight a couple of years ago.

spoken like a true liberal-why would you think this is true

[GatorAvatar]

Is g8orbill the most conservative poster on the board? Probably a tea party activist?

[ATLitigator]

big picture....libbies, neocons, lefts and rights in Washington are not all that different

they are consumed by their power and their constant quest to remain their

they both want to spend taxpayer money to remain in power

one side buys the votes thru social programs/entitlements and handouts
the other side thru big business, fiscal/economic policy and the military

they really on differ on how to raise the money they are spending

until we replace the politicians in washington with people who are actually interested in solving the problems, this is what we are going to have until our country collapses

it does not matter who is in the white house, in the senate or in the house...they are all the same

[rpmGator]

Fact is, the further in either direction you go from the middle, the more you are full of it.

[g8orbill]

funny thing about that middle rpm-liberals think they are the middle

[tegator80]

Originally Posted by Burke

This is not a subject I know a lot about, but there is a growing belief among some Objectivists that neocons are a greater threat than leftists. In a private email, I asked one who sometimes writes for a national publication if she thought this was true.

Her response,

"Yes, absolutely. No one mistakes a leftist, and leftists do not really undermine the ideological cohesion of the right. Neocons are dangerous precisely because they are so well-camouflaged and work covertly to undermine us. They are literally experts at it."

My first thoughts about this were to recall how harshly Krauthammer and Kristol savaged the Tea Party members of Congress on the debt hike fight a couple of years ago.

I think this is exactly why our country is going in a bad direction. Not because we have people who are ambitious and hawkish but because we have people who claim to be objective but only see one side. And isn't it nice and tidy that the vast majority (exclusively?) of these so called demons are old white guys? They are the beady eyed criminals in the old movies: easy for the general population to pick out. But the "others" who are "pure in their ideals" and it shows in their faces are at least well meaning if not heroic.

If anyone is truly paying attention to what is going on, it is that the middle ground of our social conscience has morphed into a fat, happy and stupid group. Both the "lefts" and "rights" are taking advantage of it. And I am getting more and more convinced that they are one in the same and not just in effect. The real play is all of the energy demonizing each other so that the middle stays put and continues to play by the same rules. The past election pretty much legitimized the fact that while we don't like what is happening to our country, the results say "stay the course." And that is truly sad for us and our future.

But hey, that is okay because I just got a new ipad and smart phone for Christmas and America's Got Talent will be cranking up again shortly!

[AmericaFirst]

Originally Posted by Burke

This is not a subject I know a lot about, but there is a growing belief among some Objectivists that neocons are a greater threat than leftists. In a private email, I asked one who sometimes writes for a national publication if she thought this was true.

Her response,

"Yes, absolutely. No one mistakes a leftist, and leftists do not really undermine the ideological cohesion of the right. Neocons are dangerous precisely because they are so well-camouflaged and work covertly to undermine us. They are literally experts at it."

My first thoughts about this were to recall how harshly Krauthammer and Kristol savaged the Tea Party members of Congress on the debt hike fight a couple of years ago.

Neocon has and always will be the code word for Zionist aka the Israel Firsters. Romney was one as well. We haven't had a true Republican in office since Reagan. They'll continue to run this country into the ground while making us pay for their wars in the Middle East which do nothing for us but everything for Israel. Until they're removed and the people wake up to this nonsense, we'll continue to get destroyed from within. Krauthammer and Kristol are two of the worst Zionists. They'd like nothing more than to see us invade Iran and get thousands more of our troops killed in a no-win war while also killing thousands of Iranian civilians.

I used to enjoy watching Fox News until they became the Zionist/Neocon mouthpiece. Unfortunately, I don't think the American people are intelligent enough as a whole to wake up to this undermining and it'll be too late if they do.

Got to increase that debt limit so we can send more weapons to the Middle East. Oh, and the American taxpayer will be on the hook for the bill.