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Old 12-29-2012, 08:26 AM   #61
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Based on this thread, though ... still not convinced.
What has you convinced that he does not understand how health insurance works?
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Old 12-29-2012, 08:42 AM   #62
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First post, plus link.

I disagree vehemently with Obamacare, as it not only fixes nothing, it exacerbates the situation. BUT ... it's extended, socialized health insurance. As even the article explains, the doctors currently have choices as to who they treat, what they accept, etc. None of that changes.

Doctors should not be the recipient of our sympathy - they'll be fine. It's the rest of us who will be paying the doctors through Obamacare who deserve the sympathy.
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Old 12-29-2012, 10:27 AM   #63
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I was talking to a friend of mine last night who is a rehab doc (Physical medicine and Rehabilitation). One of the plans has decreased the rates to $60 for 10 therapies. That is $6 an hour. Plus you take on the risk of being sued for your trouble. Some of her friends are signing, but she refuses. It is absurd. She was also telling me about her Medicare renewal application. It was denied because her husband is in her bank account. Just the time and money we spend as doctors to just be able to practice is simply absurd. We are in agreement that we rather just not work. We are the lucky ones with husbands who can support our family. All that time studying and training down the drain. I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for me for sure, but I feel sorry for the American people- everyone will get chitty rationed care, and that is worse for the middle class.
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Old 12-29-2012, 07:26 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

Based on this thread, though ... still not convinced.
Really? How so?
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:15 AM   #65
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What has you convinced that he does not understand how health insurance works?
He doesn't mean it. That's just the current 'go-to' phrase when you are I'll-equipped to debate the topic on its merits alone...

You see it all the time in here.... It's the Internet equivalent of "I know you are, but what am I?"
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:04 PM   #66
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"In 1986, the Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act known as EMTALA (Section 1867 (a) of the Social Security Act) and sometimes referred to as the "Patient Anti-Dumping Act" was passed by Congress and signed into law by President Reagan. The purpose of the Act was to ensure that acutely ill patients who are uninsured or underinsured receive appropriate emergency care and to prevent hospitals from refusing to treat certain populations of patients who present to the emergency department. Although EMTALA was passed to protect those who lack financial resources or medical insurance, it applies to all seeking care from a hospital's emergency department in all states and territories of the United States. However, not all hospitals have obligations under EMTALA. Only hospitals that accept federal funds from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid (CMS), a branch of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), are subject to civil liability under the Act. The CMS and the Office of the Inspector General (OIG) enforce EMTALA. The OIG can fine Hospitals $50,000 per violation ($25,000 for hospitals with less than 100 beds) and possibly terminate their Medicare provider agreement. Individual physicians also may receive a fine up to $50,000 and be excluded from future Medicare funding."

http://www.ascensionhealth.org/index...146&Itemid=172
Nice def of EMTALA was there a point?
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Old 12-31-2012, 03:25 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by DaveFla View Post
He doesn't mean it. That's just the current 'go-to' phrase when you are I'll-equipped to debate the topic on its merits alone...

You see it all the time in here.... It's the Internet equivalent of "I know you are, but what am I?"
Actually, I expounded since then. What you'll see around here all the time are people who are too lazy (or excited) to read the thread before they reply.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:44 PM   #68
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Nice def of EMTALA was there a point?
To clarify the discussion by pointing out what right to health care we have by law as opposed to opinion.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:50 PM   #69
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To clarify the discussion by pointing out what right to health care we have by law as opposed to opinion.
It is vaporous and ephemeral. Again, the patient is still legally and morally obligated to pay for the care they receive under that statute. If a law required that a store take checks for big ticket items, would that demonstrate a "right" to the item? Obviously not.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:14 PM   #70
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To clarify the discussion by pointing out what right to health care we have by law as opposed to opinion.
Actually the "right" is to a "medical screening exam" and to "treatment and stabilization of life threatening conditions".

Over the years hospitals have found it easier to just treat the non emergency, non insured for their BS complaints. That is and will change as more and more people are force to the ER for BS issues, and as Medicaid increasing refuses to pay for ER visits.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:01 PM   #71
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It is vaporous and ephemeral. Again, the patient is still legally and morally obligated to pay for the care they receive under that statute. If a law required that a store take checks for big ticket items, would that demonstrate a "right" to the item? Obviously not.
You're entitled to your opinion on what you think facts may mean but can you please provide metaphors that make sense to explain it.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:05 PM   #72
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Actually the "right" is to a "medical screening exam" and to "treatment and stabilization of life threatening conditions".

Over the years hospitals have found it easier to just treat the non emergency, non insured for their BS complaints. That is and will change as more and more people are force to the ER for BS issues, and as Medicaid increasing refuses to pay for ER visits.
Perhaps, but that will be up to the Inspector General to adjudicate. Of course with our new health care insurance system there will be fewer patients without regular doctors forced to seek treatment at the ER.
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Old 12-31-2012, 11:10 PM   #73
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To clarify the discussion by pointing out what right to health care we have by law as opposed to opinion.
the aw does not create a right to healthcare. it only applies tohospitals receiving federal money from medicaid/medicare

it establishes a condition of receiving federal money. if it is a right, itwould apply to all medical providers and would not provide a way to opt out.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:42 AM   #74
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the aw does not create a right to healthcare. it only applies tohospitals receiving federal money from medicaid/medicare

it establishes a condition of receiving federal money. if it is a right, itwould apply to all medical providers and would not provide a way to opt out.
Of course it does. A right is still a right even when not absolute. This particular one is far reaching since most hospitals fall under it.
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:10 AM   #75
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If EMTALA created any rights, they were some amalgam of privacy or contract interests. All that has been protected is that the (very nominal) treatment doesn't come with proof of payment. The law does not create a right to healthcare. Your rights are not something you have to pay for just for the right to manifest. An actual right to healthcare would create in others a positive duty to give it to you. Give, not sell. Just because some deadbeats and losers will accept treatment and then steal it by not paying what they owe, that is not by the operation of the law.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:06 AM   #76
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If EMTALA created any rights, they were some amalgam of privacy or contract interests. All that has been protected is that the (very nominal) treatment doesn't come with proof of payment. The law does not create a right to healthcare. Your rights are not something you have to pay for just for the right to manifest. An actual right to healthcare would create in others a positive duty to give it to you. Give, not sell. Just because some deadbeats and losers will accept treatment and then steal it by not paying what they owe, that is not by the operation of the law.
It's a right with far reaching application. That is obvious from visiting our ERs. That unintended consequence should be ameliorated as more Americans have regular docs through the new health care insurance law.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:09 AM   #77
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Of course it does. A right is still a right even when not absolute. This particular one is far reaching since most hospitals fall under it.
if every hospital and other medical provider refused medicare/medicaid funds, therefore making them exempt from this act, they would no longer have to treat you....therefore you will not get healthcare, therfore no right

If I get arrested, and I want a trial by jury, I'm going to have a trial....right

I can force the state to give me a jury trial, you cannot force a hospital to provide care( in my example)
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:15 AM   #78
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if every hospital and other medical provider refused medicare/medicaid funds, therefore making them exempt from this act, they would no longer have to treat you....therefore you will not get healthcare, therfore no right

If I get arrested, and I want a trial by jury, I'm going to have a trial....right

I can force the state to give me a jury trial, you cannot force a hospital to provide care( in my example)
I think I posted a pretty complete description of the law, and it's not up to the hospitals discretion.
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Old 01-01-2013, 05:38 PM   #79
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I think I posted a pretty complete description of the law, and it's not up to the hospitals discretion.
However, not all hospitals have obligations under EMTALA. Only hospitals that accept federal funds from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid (CMS), a branch of the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS), are subject to civil liability under the Act.

Read more: http://www.gatorcountry.com/swampgas...#ixzz2GlYpmO70

yes, it is up to the hospitals. they can refuse to accept federal money (medicare & medicaid contracts) and then are not subject to the act and can therefore, deny care
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Old 01-01-2013, 10:31 PM   #80
gatorpa
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Perhaps, but that will be up to the Inspector General to adjudicate. Of course with our new health care insurance system there will be fewer patients without regular doctors forced to seek treatment at the ER.
If doctors actually agree to sign up to accept the new ins. Soooo many take Fl Medicaid :sarcastically grins:
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