Gun Control

[PITBOSS]

Originally Posted by The_Graygator

….. For them to politicize this is atrocious.

….

and then 2 posts later.....

Originally Posted by The_Graygator

And yet, in cities like NY and Washington and Chicago that have strict gun ban laws, the criminal still manage to get weapons to kill people with.

There is no reasoning this. If this guy wanted to kill these children, he'd have found the guns illegally and still done it, gun bans or not.

This is about keeping guns out of the wrong peoples' hands, not out of the hands of decent, law-abiding people.

[WESGATORS]

Call me crazy, but I don't see today's CT shooting as relevant to the gun control discussion. What could be added to the legislation that would have prevented this tragedy?

We can't solve all of our irrational behavior problems with legislation; I think it would be more productive to focus on the way we develop members of our society. Solutions don't have to be based on legislation, but based on good ideas getting distributed and practiced. Much of these good ideas need to come in the form of maximizing our potential to be good parents and to help those around us be good parents. Where that fails, we can expect greater struggles down the road.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[dangolegators]

To me it seems that gun nuts want guns so they can protect themselves from other gun nuts. Until we change the gun culture in this country, the obsession with guns, nothing is going to change. And since we're never going to change the gun culture in this country, nothing is going to change. America just loves guns. So just get used to it.

[DaveFla]

Originally Posted by 407Gator

Sure but it seems that they love to go over the shooters background in detail.

Its been more than 10 years and I still cant forget that the names of the shooters were Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold. I don't think that giving this persons name publicity help and invite copy cats.

Exactly...

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

Call me crazy, but I don't see today's CT shooting as relevant to the gun control discussion. What could be added to the legislation that would have prevented this tragedy?

that would depend on what weapons he had and how he obtained them.

[nawlinsgator]

Originally Posted by tegator80

Not to minimize the news of the day, but gun control laws remind me of the silly locks they now put on car doors (no knobs at the ends). Somehow someone got the idea that since you can get a coat hanger down though a slightly open window and put a hook on the end, you could open up the door without a key. So let's take that away from the criminal.

Now the only times I have seen a coat hanger and car window it is an owner who is trying to get into their own car after locking themselves out. You see a coat hanger is too slow for a real criminal. They use a slim jim instead. So instead of making cars safe for the owners all they have done is made it harder on them and it doesn't do a thing against the car thief.

That is gun control laws: they make it harder for the responsible persons but it doesn't do a damn thing against the criminal element. And getting back to the crime at hand: why did he kill so many? Because he could get away with it. Arm a few people in public places and those odds go WAY down. But since you can't prove something that doesn't happen - how do you know that when 5 people die that the number could have been 25? - the liberal thinkers are not going to give up.

I don't necessarily agree with your car lock analogy. But I really DO wonder if stuff like this would happen if there was an armed guard on duty at the schools. Most probably not.

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by dangolegators

To me it seems that gun nuts want guns so they can protect themselves from other gun nuts. Until we change the gun culture in this country, the obsession with guns, nothing is going to change. And since we're never going to change the gun culture in this country, nothing is going to change. America just loves guns. So just get used to it.

It seems that way, but there's data showing that gun ownership has been declining over the last 40 years or so.

First, we are a less violent nation now than we’ve been in over forty years. In 2010, violent crime rates hit a low not seen since 1972; murder rates sunk to levels last experienced during the Kennedy Administration. Our perceptions of our own safety have shifted, as well. In the early 1980s, almost half of Americans told the General Social Survey (GSS) they were “afraid to walk alone at night” in their own neighborhoods; now only one-third feel this way.


Second, for all the attention given to America’s culture of guns, ownership of firearms is at or near all-time lows. Since 1973, the GSS has been asking Americans whether they keep a gun in their home. In the 1970s, about half of the nation said yes; today only about one-third do. Driving the decline: a dramatic drop in ownership of pistols and shotguns, the very weapons most likely to be used in violent crimes.

http://themonkeycage.org/blog/2012/0...he+Monkey+Cage)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...declining1.png

[DaveFla]

Whatever declines we may have seen up to 2010 (the date of the data used in your posts) have been reversed over the past couple of years.

[DaveFla]

Plus, I might add, that today's gun owner isn't one to tell Gallup (or themonkeycage.com) that they have a gun in their home.

[WESGATORS]

Originally Posted by rivergator

that would depend on what weapons he had and how he obtained them.

There's more to it than that. It would also depend on how accessible illegally obtained weapons would have been to get and whether or not he would have resorted to other options had guns not been accessible to it. As mentioned in the other thread, and possibly in this one too, motor vehicles are more dangerous than guns are in terms of being easy to kill a lot of people at one time.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[ArtVandelay]

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

Call me crazy

You're crazy

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by DaveFla

Whatever declines we may have seen up to 2010 (the date of the data used in your posts) have been reversed over the past couple of years.

I think violent crime in 2011 was up slighty from 2010, but still at or near all-time lows. Obviously, there's not data from 2012 yet. So a slight increase cant be reasonably called a trend or indicative of a "reverse" especially when viewed in context.

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by DaveFla

Plus, I might add, that today's gun owner isn't one to tell Gallup (or themonkeycage.com) that they have a gun in their home.

Another dubious assertion made without any evidence supporting it.

[gator996]

As a general rule, is it too easy to obtain a gun in this country?


.

[JohnC1908]

I have no idea what the answer is. Generally I'm against any new law/legislation that restricts or takes away. However it'd be a bit ignorant to just gloss over reviewing that avenue. This a complex problem, I really don't think there's a perfect answer.

[DaveFla]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

Another dubious assertion made without any evidence supporting it.

Yes... My mistake. I can't expect you to actually USE common sense.

My bad.

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

There's more to it than that. It would also depend on how accessible illegally obtained weapons would have been to get and whether or not he would have resorted to other options had guns not been accessible to it. As mentioned in the other thread, and possibly in this one too, motor vehicles are more dangerous than guns are in terms of being easy to kill a lot of people at one time.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

we don't see quite as many mass killings by cars though, do we

[gator996]

Originally Posted by JohnC1908

I have no idea what the answer is. Generally I'm against any new law/legislation that restricts or takes away. However it'd be a bit ignorant to just gloss over reviewing that avenue. This a complex problem, I really don't think there's a perfect answer.

I agree...


Just wonder if this is a common ground for the political discussion to start

[407Gator]

Originally Posted by nawlinsgator

I don't necessarily agree with your car lock analogy. But I really DO wonder if stuff like this would happen if there was an armed guard on duty at the schools. Most probably not.

Of course it would have been less likely / stopped sooner BUT your cure may be worse than the problem. There are about 130,000 public schools in the United States. Adding one armed guard to every school would cost $7.8 billion dollars (at $60k per guard).

At that rate the potential 20 lives saved would work out to $390,000,000 each.

Even if it worked, it is too expensive.

[DaveFla]

Originally Posted by rivergator

we don't see quite as many mass killings by cars though, do we

It's too hard to get that Suburban through your average size schoolhouse door...