Gun Control

[MichiGator2002]

Originally Posted by NJG8tor

It was. But Russia wasnt free and had no history of freedom as Americans know it.

And the revolution didn't free them or give them a history of freedom as Americans knew it, either. Nobody ever got more freedom by getting a state with its finger further shoved in.

[NJG8tor]

Originally Posted by MichiGator2002

And the revolution didn't free them or give them a history of freedom as Americans knew it, either. Nobody ever got more freedom by getting a state with its finger further shoved in.

And the object of revolution was not to make them free from government, it was about land and freedom from outside entanglements. I dont know what you are trying to prove other than arguing for the sake of arguing.

[PIMking]

Russia went from a Tsarist monarch rule to a Premier Dictatorship rule. Still one man rules the show

[gatordavisl]

Originally Posted by AmericaFirst

No offense, but the fact that you advocate for gun control and happen to be a veteran as well is disgusting to me. You of all people should know the importance of guns.

It's unfortunate that you can be so disrespectful to a war veteran.

[Gatoragman]

It appears this crazed gunman was a gamer also, so all you gun law proponents, are you willing to ban all violent video games also?
Been reported that most were killed with one shot, where do you think he obtained the skills to be that accurate with a gun? Possibly the hours spent gaming?

[Minister_of_Information]

MW3

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by Gatoragman

It appears this crazed gunman was a gamer also, so all you gun law proponents, are you willing to ban all violent video games also?
Been reported that most were killed with one shot, where do you think he obtained the skills to be that accurate with a gun? Possibly the hours spent gaming?

Were the video games used to killed the kids?

[freakygator]

Originally Posted by Gatoragman

It appears this crazed gunman was a gamer also, so all you gun law proponents, are you willing to ban all violent video games also?
Been reported that most were killed with one shot, where do you think he obtained the skills to be that accurate with a gun? Possibly the hours spent gaming?

Gatoragman, I also used to be a gamer but I have no clue where to find a real gun. Certainly not in my mother's closet. That is the difference between a kid growing up in the US as opposed to a kid growing up in The Netherlands, for example.

[gatordavisl]

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

The bottom line in the comparison is that you have devices not intended to kill killing at a much higher clip than devices intended to kill, the outrage seems misplaced when stepping back and looking at the bigger picture. Statistically speaking, you and I are more likely to die by an automobile than either one of us is to die by a firearm...despite the fact that there are more firearms in this country than automobiles.

I think if valid and reliable statistics were applied to your contention, it would be proven false. If you claim cars kill more people, you would be correct, but you neglect to consider the amount of use. A more valid measure to address the argument would relate number of deaths to amount of usage. Which do you think are used more often: cars or guns? Another confounding variable in the equation is the notion of intent, which you may have addressed. I'm not sure.

[freakygator]

The only comparison you can make is to compare the US with other developed countries like Brittain, Holland, France, Germany, etc. In these countries gun accidents at home or massacres in public areas is very uncommon because there's no easy access to them. There are way too many guns lying around homes in America. The fact that yesterday's shooter used three guns owned by his mother is madness!

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by Gatoragman

It appears this crazed gunman was a gamer also, so all you gun law proponents, are you willing to ban all violent video games also?
Been reported that most were killed with one shot, where do you think he obtained the skills to be that accurate with a gun? Possibly the hours spent gaming?

dude using a joystick to aim is a whole hell of a lot different than actually aiming and shooting. Plus you're shooting at children that are smaller.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by gatordavisl

I think if valid and reliable statistics were applied to your contention, it would be proven false. If you claim cars kill more people, you would be correct, but you neglect to consider the amount of use. A more valid measure to address the argument would relate number of deaths to amount of usage. Which do you think are used more often: cars or guns? Another confounding variable in the equation is the notion of intent, which you may have addressed. I'm not sure.

But a car is a tool, a device that one uses to get from point a to point b. In the hands of a capable driver they're safe, in the hands of an idiot they're dangerous. The gun is close, the thing is guns were meant to kill, (ie hunting and war) but they're also tools of enjoyment like long range target practice. in the hands of capibale person they're safe, in the hands of an idiot you have this.

hell in the hands of New York PD they're dangerous to civillians.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by freakygator

The only comparison you can make is to compare the US with other developed countries like Brittain, Holland, France, Germany, etc. In these countries gun accidents at home or massacres in public areas is very uncommon because there's no easy access to them. There are way too many guns lying around homes in America. The fact that yesterday's shooter used three guns owned by his mother is madness!

Germany had weapons taken away by the Nazi's and never got them back. Germany is also no where near the size of the US and have the issues with an open boarder to the south and huge gang populations.

Ever since WWI the French have no idea how to hold a rifle longer than ten seconds and the Dutch, well those people should understand the importance of a rifle since they had such a strong resistence to the Nazi occupation during the war. The English, well they outlawed weapons and I was talking to an Englishman about it and his theory that they were brain washed into thinking was that if no one had guns (including the cops) that the bad guys wouldn't use them either. How freaking stupid is that? I'm being dead serious, if you're a bad guy and you know that no one has a gun that you're going to be the top dog, you're going to have a gun

[gatordavisl]

A little more on the guns vs. cars argument:

As Dr. David Hemenway, director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center and the Youth Violence Prevention Center, notes in his 2004 book Private Guns, Public Health: "[T]he time Americans spend using their cars is orders of magnitudes greater than the time spent using their guns. It is probable that per hour of exposure, guns are far more dangerous. Moreover, we have lots of safety regulations concerning the manufacture of motor vehicles; there are virtually no safety regulations for domestic firearms manufacture."

In 2009, there were actually 10 states with higher numbers of gun deaths than car deaths.
Further, automobile deaths appear to be on the decline. It's time to drop the automobile argument, which is not more than a poor attempt at deflection from the real issue.

[PIMking]

dead is dead, people died using guns or being shot by guns and people died by cars. Doesn't matter because they're dead./rant

[ironhead1]

Originally Posted by zoltanuf

Seriously, cheer up! Multinational corporations still own America and can exploit their workers, there are still poor people and you can still smear them for it, gay kids are still getting tormented in school, seniors are barely scraping by on SS, the airport is still named after Reagan, wingers still control the supreme court -- that's practically enough to cause a conservative orgasm.

Seriously...... Cheer up.
Businesses are actually getting to the point of paying their workers what they're worth and hopefully keeping them employed. How disgusting that is huh?
Poor people have cell phones and late model cars and homes and enough left over from their 99 freakin weeks of unemployment checks to buy those much needed lottery tickets,carton of cigs and case of bud every week.
47 M I L L I O N people are now on the Government snap program for food assistance.
Hmmm.....what a coincidence, that would represent about 90% of the vote for the current so called "president".
I'm sure you realize that the gay kids in school are emboldened by their union activists leftists teachers to someday be loud and proud and walk the aisle . How cool is that?
I mean...a 10 year old kid that doesn't even know what sex is can be transformed into a full blown gay activist by the time he or she is 12. Ain't government school wonderful?

I guess we should continue to bankrupt social security so our seniors won't be scraping by huh? I mean, the benefits and payout have been well publicized for years. If someone is stupid enough to think SS was going to provide them some millionaires lifestyle after they retired on only SS....then what more can one say?
He'll...lets not raise the retirement age or try any meaningful legislation whatsoever,lets just tax the rich more to pay for it all....

The lack of personal responsibility.....the outright brainwashing of our children from pre K to a bachelors degree...the domination of the media for the left wing...the constant attacks and decay on morality,especially the decline of the American family unit...the constant drumbeat of class warfare,race relations,sex ......should be and are a leftists orgasmic celebration

We have become a nation of enablers.

By the way....the biggest single day gun violence deaths will be the day the local police go door to door to collect guns.

[gatordavisl]

Originally Posted by PIMking

dead is dead, people died using guns or being shot by guns and people died by cars. Doesn't matter because they're dead./rant

Sorry, but you are wrong about that. If you are going to make an argument about one implement being more dangerous or more deadly, you must accurately measure the level of danger. "Dead is dead" is simply a negligent argument. Again, the car argument has not validity in the discussion of gun control. Try something else.

[Minister_of_Information]

The function of guns is to kill. The purpose of an armed populace is national security.

[The_Graygator]

Originally Posted by Gatoragman

It appears this crazed gunman was a gamer also, so all you gun law proponents, are you willing to ban all violent video games also?
Been reported that most were killed with one shot, where do you think he obtained the skills to be that accurate with a gun? Possibly the hours spent gaming?

Just from someone who has spent a long, long time with firearms, "gaming" on video games isn't going to acquire one pinpoint accuracy with an actual weapon. There are so many different variables to consider when using a real weapon that a game video game can't simulate.

These weren;t even his weapons which would indicate he'd hardly had any time to practice with them and become familiar with them.

Firing close range in an enclosed room at defenseless children who are frozen in fear is a lot easier than one would think. It would have been like shooting fish in a barrell. If these people had managed to escape the building and run into the open, I doubt he would have actually been accurate enough to do much damage.

Still, this entire situation just breaks my heart.

Schools should have security officers or teachers should be trained to carry concealed.

[Minister_of_Information]

Sorry, but you just can't put guns in the classroom. Put them in the principal's office or dean's office along with trained personnel.