We're finally getting off probation!

[corpgator]

After years of self imposed probation, we're finally going to be playing at the full 85 scholarship level. I'm pretty sure we were below it every year under Meyer and were this year as well.

Imagine what this team is going to look like once we have the depth of a full roster?

Scout shows 79 for 2012
72 for 2011
80 for 2010
78 for 2009
79 for 2008
71 for 2007
79 for 2006
81 for 2005
2004 shows 87, meaning 2 or more transferred before the season started.

It makes what we've accomplished that much more impressive, but our last coach's recruiting philosophy was bunk. In years we had far superior talent, we could win, but when we didn't, we didn't have the depth to survive.

[MadduxFanII]

Ignoring yet another silly shot at Meyer, it seems unlikely that we end up playing the season with exactly 85 scholarship players. Most teams don't. There's attrition before the season, attrition during the season, guys kicked off, etc. If you're around 80 you're doing fine.

Now, going into a season with 72 scholarship players is...less than optimal, and ending it with something like 64 or 65 is just awful. That hopefully won't happen again.

[rserina]

Meyer's recruiting philosophy was terrible. Right. We loaded up on elite recruits now populating NFL rosters and wearing national championship rings. Terrible idea.

Roster management isn't the end game in recruiting; winning games is. Different coaches approach it differently, but what matters isn't how many guys you have on scholarship. What matters is how your recruiting produces success on the field.

[corpgator]

The problem was we intentionally wouldn't sign guys like Brandon James, who was only signed by Meyer after a lot of convincing, because they were lesser players. What's wrong with filling out the roster with guys who might or might not pan out?

That's basically what has kept us from having sustained success like Bama and led to some ugly seasons. Football takes a toll. It was extremely apparent during the second half of the season until guys got health again for FSU.

We're Florida. We'll always get the elite guys. It's how we fill out the roster that determines how we sustain success. And roster management is a huge part of any sport.

[MadduxFanII]

The problem was we intentionally wouldn't sign guys like Brandon James, who was only signed by Meyer after a lot of convincing, because they were lesser players. What's wrong with filling out the roster with guys who might or might not pan out?

So your chief example of a guy we didn't sign is a guy we signed?

[corpgator]

Originally Posted by MadduxFanII

So your chief example of a guy we didn't sign is a guy we signed?

An example of what can happen when we sign guys to fill spots that we don't think are worth it. I can't name guys we didn't sign because we didn't sign them. Obviously there were plenty out there since we have had nearly a decade of 5 or more spots left before transfers even left.

[G8RNTN]

Originally Posted by MadduxFanII

Ignoring yet another silly shot at Meyer, it seems unlikely that we end up playing the season with exactly 85 scholarship players. Most teams don't. There's attrition before the season, attrition during the season, guys kicked off, etc. If you're around 80 you're doing fine.

Now, going into a season with 72 scholarship players is...less than optimal, and ending it with something like 64 or 65 is just awful. That hopefully won't happen again.

Did u just say u were ignoring another silly Meyer post??? And then went on to post about it?

[rserina]

Originally Posted by G8RNTN

Did u just say u were ignoring another silly Meyer post??? And then went on to post about it?

He said he was ignoring the shot at Meyer, which he didn't address, not the post, the logic of which he did address.

[Dreamliner]

I'm going to say it: Urban Meyer!

*runs away*

[thedyc09]

Roster management is all a great balancing act.

1) You never want to sign guys to just fill out the roster. We have high standards for a reason. We want every scholarship to be competitive.

2) You always want to leave space for the elusive "big fish" who wait until signing day before announcing.

3) You want a relatively even number of signings for each 4-year span. Nothing was worse than signing 28-30 kids one year then only having space for 15 the next.

Meyer seemed to be very big on points number one and two and not so much on number three. We constantly left spots open because we were in on a number of huge prospects (this was a great thing), but every time we whiffed, Meyer appeared to think "Wait 'til next year" rather than "Time for Plan B." That actually worked in our favor for the incredible 2010 class (that we would go on to lose 10 from it doesn't matter so much to me). Still, I would prefer 22-24 every year.

[rserina]

Originally Posted by corpgator

The problem was we intentionally wouldn't sign guys like Brandon James, who was only signed by Meyer after a lot of convincing, because they were lesser players. What's wrong with filling out the roster with guys who might or might not pan out?

That's basically what has kept us from having sustained success like Bama and led to some ugly seasons. Football takes a toll. It was extremely apparent during the second half of the season until guys got health again for FSU.

We're Florida. We'll always get the elite guys. It's how we fill out the roster that determines how we sustain success. And roster management is a huge part of any sport.

I don't necessarily disagree with the first two paragraphs, but I honestly don't see how going 13-1 in three of four seasons isn't "sustained success."

Let's compare your desideratum of Bama to Florida in the first six years of their respective regimes:

Year 1: Florida, 9-3 (2005); Bama, 8-5 (2007)
Year 2: Florida, 13-1 (2006); Bama, 12-2 (2008)
Year 3: Florida, 9-4 (2007); Bama, 14-0 (2009)
Year 4: Florida, 13-1 (2008); Bama, 10-3 (2010)
Year 5: Florida, 13-1 (2009); Bama, 13-1 (2011)
Year 6: Florida, 8-5 (2010); Bama, 13-1 (2012)

We were better than Bama in three of those six, and equivalent in another. They were down in year four as much as we were down in year three. Meyer's last season is the only one where you see a marked difference, but I think we can all agree that was a disaster of a season from the top down, not so much from the bottom up.

The problem in 2007 had nothing to do with depth and everything to do with inexperience on the defensive side of the ball owing largely to the coaching transition that left us with a dearth of upperclassmen on that side of the ball and heavy attrition to the NFL on that side of the ball (Nelson, Moss, Siler, Smith). We had pretty full classes in 2006 and 2007, so it isn't like we were signing 18 kids and holding scholarships for the next year.

Likewise, the problem wasn't lack of depth in 2010, even there we had 80 kids on scholarship despite heavy attrition of underclassmen in Haden, Wright, Dunlap, and Hernandez. I hardly consider that self-imposed probation.

[rserina]

Originally Posted by thedyc09

Meyer seemed to be very big on points number one and two and not so much on number three. We constantly left spots open because we were in on a number of huge prospects (this was a great thing), but every time we whiffed, Meyer appeared to think "Wait 'til next year" rather than "Time for Plan B." That actually worked in our favor for the incredible 2010 class (that we would go on to lose 10 from it doesn't matter so much to me). Still, I would prefer 22-24 every year.

That's a good point. If you remember at the presser for his opening class, Meyer stated a desire to sign roughly even numbers every year in the 18-22 range, but those next two classes were so stout he went with it. After that, I think he got a little "star hungry" because we had closed so successfully with the previous classes.

[qwghlmgator]

Originally Posted by rserina

That's a good point. If you remember at the presser for his opening class, Meyer stated a desire to sign roughly even numbers every year in the 18-22 range, but those next two classes were so stout he went with it. After that, I think he got a little "star hungry" because we had closed so successfully with the previous classes.

And I think it's important to note that this is exactly the bet that Saban has been hedging through oversigning. He's been able to go after those stars without losing the "quality depth" alternatives due to extra slack in his system. And in a game of inches, that's is an advantage that can't be overstated.

[Gatorrick22]

I could never understand why we never actually used all of our ships in past recruiting classes.

[delioj]

why were we on probation in the first place?

[g0ggles]

Originally Posted by thedyc09

Roster management is all a great balancing act.

1) You never want to sign guys to just fill out the roster. We have high standards for a reason. We want every scholarship to be competitive.

2) You always want to leave space for the elusive "big fish" who wait until signing day before announcing.

3) You want a relatively even number of signings for each 4-year span. Nothing was worse than signing 28-30 kids one year then only having space for 15 the next.

Meyer seemed to be very big on points number one and two and not so much on number three. We constantly left spots open because we were in on a number of huge prospects (this was a great thing), but every time we whiffed, Meyer appeared to think "Wait 'til next year" rather than "Time for Plan B." That actually worked in our favor for the incredible 2010 class (that we would go on to lose 10 from it doesn't matter so much to me). Still, I would prefer 22-24 every year.

Couldn't have said it better. The man could recruit (06 & 07 classes) his @ss off. But he turned into college football equivalent of a "homerun or strikeout" hitter. That caused some classes to be unbalanced (08). The current staff is using a different method, but the results appear to be the same. Monster classes

[MadduxFanII]

Let's not go overboard with analyzing Muschamp's "recruiting philosophy" yet. The sample size is far too small. He's had one full recruiting class, and he'll finish up his second in a month or so (I don't believe in judging a new coach on the class he signs before he coaches a game). In the one full Muschamp class we've seen, we left a massive handful of scholarships on the board because of an inability to sign the big stars we wanted on Signing Day, save Fowler.

This class looks different. And that's good to see. But right now we've got one small class and one full class in the Muschamp oeuvre, and the latter isn't done yet. Let's hold off on the grand picture until we see a little more.

[ETGator1]

We came in with 77 in 12. The 79 must include a couple of walkons who were awarded one year ships.

It's going to be impossible to come in at 85 every year. I'd be happy with consistent low 80s. The problem is beyond the coaches approach to recruiting.

Jeremy Foley does not allow grayshirting. The only time I've seen it used at UF was with Channing Crowder when he was asked to come in January after he had a knee injury. Planning to come in at 85 isn't possible without a grayshirt program like Alabama and LSU uses. Sometimes it's voluntary and sometimes it's not. That's why Jeremy Foley doesn't allow it at UF. When it doesn't go well, it can be a blackeye to the football program by giving the perception that the affected recruits weren't dealt with fairly.

[gatordee]

Urban without TT in the SEC was 17-8 winning , while Urban with TT was 48-7. Saban was 60-12

[gatorman_07732]

Originally Posted by thedyc09

Roster management is all a great balancing act.

1) You never want to sign guys to just fill out the roster. We have high standards for a reason. We want every scholarship to be competitive.

2) You always want to leave space for the elusive "big fish" who wait until signing day before announcing.

3) You want a relatively even number of signings for each 4-year span. Nothing was worse than signing 28-30 kids one year then only having space for 15 the next.

Meyer seemed to be very big on points number one and two and not so much on number three. We constantly left spots open because we were in on a number of huge prospects (this was a great thing), but every time we whiffed, Meyer appeared to think "Wait 'til next year" rather than "Time for Plan B." That actually worked in our favor for the incredible 2010 class (that we would go on to lose 10 from it doesn't matter so much to me). Still, I would prefer 22-24 every year.

Good post....you always need to leave some slack in the line and the balancing act is dead on. Nice thoughts