Guys on CBS were talking up the Gators today

[STR8OUTDASWAMP1]

Originally Posted by madgator

So now we've taken the next step. Not only was all success the last 2 years the result of Walker. He is also responsible for the success of this years team.

got it!

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

[GatorPlanet]

Originally Posted by MadduxFanII

Man, the CBS guys are right. It really has been an eternity since we've been a tough, inside-oriented team. Why, to find such a dynamic you have to search your memories and travel all the way back to the distant days of 2011. Did we even have the internet back then?

Good one!

Of course, once the discussion theme has been selected, there's no chance of the talking heads researching the theme's validity.

[ncgatorfan]

I think what we are seeing is the result of having 3 seniors and 4 juniors that have played a lot of games together. Confidence and chemistry has had a lot of time to develop along with their skills. You don't see a lot of this in modern day college BB. Experience has become underrated when in fact it is probably one of the most valuable aspects a college BB team can have (along with talent & coaching). We see this a lot of times when mid-majors rise and fall - their experience leads them to deep runs in tourney. This has been a great start and I'm excited about the possibilities.

[CSpantheGatorFan]

Wilbekin/Boynton were both on the team last year and in their 2nd/3rd years respectively, which is plenty of experience in college basketball in today's world. If they truly made the team better and gave the Gators a better chance to win, I think one of them would have been the starting PG. No doubt Erv had some shortcomings, but in spite of them, he was our best available option at the PG position for the last 3 years of his career. He is Florida's all-time assist leader. I get that he played a lot of minutes, but that still doesn't happen without some passing ability and I don't see how anyone could doubt his scoring ability. He also made made a lot of clutch shots for us throughout his career.

I credit our success this year to the improvement of many players. Rosario and Yuguette are much improved. Murphy has continued to build on his success last year. Young is now healthy (I think). Prather has continued to be a spark as he was late last year. Frazier has been a pleasant surprise and has helped make up for the loss of Beal.

I agree things weren't perfect with Walker, but nothing is perfect in college basketball. Some teams are content and can win with a PG that simply handles the ball and sets up the offense. Walker brought so much more than that to the table.

[rserina]

Originally Posted by CSpantheGatorFan

I agree things weren't perfect with Walker, but nothing is perfect in college basketball. Some teams are content and can win with a PG that simply handles the ball and sets up the offense. Walker brought so much more than that to the table.

Interesting. So, other point guards also have weaknesses? And most coaches and teams typically work with that they have rather than dreaming up an ideal point guard for the purposes of criticizing their own? And one need not be a perfect point guard to have success and to contribute to the team?

[tommyuf21]

Originally Posted by CSpantheGatorFan

I credit our success this year to the improvement of many players. Rosario and Yuguette are much improved. Murphy has continued to build on his success last year. Young is now healthy (I think). Prather has continued to be a spark as he was late last year. Frazier has been a pleasant surprise and has helped make up for the loss of Beal.

I agree things weren't perfect with Walker, but nothing is perfect in college basketball. Some teams are content and can win with a PG that simply handles the ball and sets up the offense. Walker brought so much more than that to the table.

We're better at this point because of the improvement of those you cite. They have all made nice jumps in productivity and not all of it is reflected in the boxscore.

Their improvement has made up any loss that may have occurred from losing Beal and Walker.

If Rosario, PYoung and Murphy had played as well last year, as they are at the onset of this season, we would have played UK for the title and if Yeguette didn't get hurt, we would have given them one helluva game.

That's another way of looking at it.

You have to give Billy a lot of credit. Never underestimate his player development.

[bofusgators]

Way to go CBS.

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by CSpantheGatorFan

Wilbekin/Boynton were both on the team last year and in their 2nd/3rd years respectively, which is plenty of experience in college basketball in today's world. If they truly made the team better and gave the Gators a better chance to win, I think one of them would have been the starting PG. No doubt Erv had some shortcomings, but in spite of them, he was our best available option at the PG position for the last 3 years of his career.

Interestingly, I saw a Swampcast of UF beat writers on the Gainesville _Sun_ site discuss this very issue last year. They discussed the general but shouted down by a loud minority consensus here that UF would have been better with E. Walker coming off the bench as an offensive spark plug as he likely was recruited to be. They agreed this was theoretically possible BUT LAUGHED AT THE IDEA THAT E.WALKER WOULD BE A GOOD SOLDIER ABOUT SUCH A CHANGE.

In general, I agree with coaches going with the more senior player in the starting lineup even if the more senior player is not quite as good as the less senior player. I think it is better for team moral unless you are starting a terribly inferior player. [That is I have much more of a problem with Donovan sticking with Werner as a starter so long than with him sticking with E.Walker as a starter until the predictably bitter end.]

So in once sense E.Walker then was UF's best available option at PG because he would have reacted badly to coming off the bench and UF needed him in the rotation. In another sense, had he a better attitude and were he a better teammate, E.Walker's better role might have been to come off the bench.

[madgator]

Originally Posted by STR8OUTDASWAMP1

Reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

actually scored on in the 99.7 percentile on the LSAT reading comprehension portion.....true story


that of course was many many many beers ago

[madgator]

Originally Posted by rserina

Interesting. So, other point guards also have weaknesses? And most coaches and teams typically work with that they have rather than dreaming up an ideal point guard for the purposes of criticizing their own? And one need not be a perfect point guard to have success and to contribute to the team?

No, you just need a point guard who routinely had lapses in judgement.

For example, when we started to go on a run, we get up 6-9 points and Walker would take a force action in the lane leading to a quick bucket and then the next possession jack up a 3 within 15 seconds of the possession leading to another basket and that lead went from 6-9 to 2-5 within a minute of game time.

Walker boys would always defend him with some "well if he had hit that, it would've been a dagger" "he was just going for the kill"

I used to LOVE that line of reasoning.

[NorthCaptivaGator]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

Interestingly, I saw a Swampcast of UF beat writers on the Gainesville _Sun_ site discuss this very issue last year. They discussed the general but shouted down by a loud minority consensus here that UF would have been better with E. Walker coming off the bench as an offensive spark plug as he likely was recruited to be. They agreed this was theoretically possible BUT LAUGHED AT THE IDEA THAT E.WALKER WOULD BE A GOOD SOLDIER ABOUT SUCH A CHANGE.

In general, I agree with coaches going with the more senior player in the starting lineup even if the more senior player is not quite as good as the less senior player. I think it is better for team moral unless you are starting a terribly inferior player. [That is I have much more of a problem with Donovan sticking with Werner as a starter so long than with him sticking with E.Walker as a starter until the predictably bitter end.]

So in once sense E.Walker then was UF's best available option at PG because he would have reacted badly to coming off the bench and UF needed him in the rotation. In another sense, had he a better attitude and were he a better teammate, E.Walker's better role might have been to come off the bench.

Please cite some evidence of Erv having a bad attitude or being a bad teammate, I have never seen nor heard this from anybody but you and mad and, in fact, his teammates and coaches say just the opposite. It was the guy who you wanted to be the starter last year who spent the first four games this year suspended and on the bench and the point guard before Erv who was pulled from a pivotal game late because of issues with attitude and lack of leadership

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by NorthCaptivaGator

Please cite some evidence of Erv having a bad attitude or being a bad teammate, I have never seen nor heard this from anybody but you and mad and, in fact, his teammates and coaches say just the opposite. It was the guy who you wanted to be the starter last year who spent the first four games this year suspended and on the bench and the point guard before Erv who was pulled from a pivotal game late because of issues with attitude and lack of leadership

Well I am not particularly interested in this battle now. E.Walker opinions are pretty much set with the majority seeing his limitations and a vocal minority trying to shout down anyone who noticed any of his limitations. But since you accused me of lacking evidence:

1. Please try to learn to read, so that you would know there was a Swampcast by two Gainesville _Sun_ writers laughing at the idea that E.Walker would accept a move to make having him come off the bench to make the team better.

2. If you want other evidence, consider the huge number of selfish shots that E.Walker took as a Gator.

3. If you want other evidence consider the number of time Donovan pulled E.Walker from games for bad selfish shots.

[gatorbogey]

there were many times Ewalk was left in the game after one of those 'selfish' shots too. i'm not sure the majority was against ewalk either, at least on the insider board, it was the vocal minority that wanted changes to the PG. of course, just like in football, the armchair coaches and point guards are always the omnipotent ones.

[rserina]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

Well I am not particularly interested in this battle now. E.Walker opinions are pretty much set with the majority seeing his limitations and a vocal minority trying to shout down anyone who noticed any of his limitations

You and Madgator are a majority?

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

1. Please try to learn to read, so that you would know there was a Swampcast by two Gainesville _Sun_ writers laughing at the idea that E.Walker would accept a move to make having him come off the bench to make the team better.

You mean, two beat writers who pretty much don't show any knowledge of hoops in Dooley and Brockway, let alone good connections to the team?

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

2. If you want other evidence, consider the huge number of selfish shots that E.Walker took as a Gator.

Dupay, Walsh, and Green all took plenty of "selfish shots," but didn't have "bad attitudes." So did Reggie Miller and Ray Allen. But they were being "competitive," not "selfish," right?

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

3. If you want other evidence consider the number of time Donovan pulled E.Walker from games for bad selfish shots.

There is a difference between "bad selfish" shots and ill-advised, unintelligent shots. Big difference. The latter are pretty obvious, but the former are pretty much ad hominem arguments.

[corpgator]

The biggest complaint people had around here about EWalk was his maddening want to jack up bad shots at ill-opportune times. Overall though, he was a net positive on offense.

Their biggest complaint should have been the huge hole he left in our defense. There's just nowhere to hide a player that short. Alas, basketball is mostly focused on offense, so the cries weren't that loud. The whole team got better, but we also got better at PG overall because of the defensive effect.

It's clearly evident in the stats thus far too.

[GatorLurker]

EWalker is water under the bridge. Can't we just leave this one alone.

[rserina]

Originally Posted by corpgator

Their biggest complaint should have been the huge hole he left in our defense. There's just nowhere to hide a player that short. Alas, basketball is mostly focused on offense, so the cries weren't that loud.

To be fair, they complained about that plenty, too...

[LabraGator]

Originally Posted by GatorLurker

EWalker is water under the bridge. Can't we just leave this one alone.

Hey, was that a short joke?

[rserina]

Originally Posted by LabraGator

Hey, was that a short joke?

Nice

[GothamGator]

Originally Posted by gatorbogey

that was jimmy dykes

Did he also mention that Billy Donovan invented the high pick and roll and popularized it in the college game?