What an unbelievably incompetent call in wildcard game

[15gator05]

Originally Posted by outbackjack

I know this is a Gators football board, and if you need to delete, please do.

However, I wanted to see what sportsfans think, and I didn't know which board to post on.

Granted, the Braves lost by having crucial errors and not scoring runners late in scoring position, BUT were also robbed by the worst call I've ever seen.

Here's my biggest problem with it.

1. The infield fly call is made when someone who starts the play on the infield, is under a fly ball with routine effort (i.e.camped). This ball was 70 feet into the outfield, and the SS NEVER EVEN REACHED the point to where the ball would eventually land.

2. Infield flys are called immediately by the ump, thus to alert baserunners. This was called by the ump when the ball was sinking fast, just an instant before it hit the ground.

3. Infield fly should be called by the third base ump, not the LF ump.

4. It is 100% clear the ump doesn't raise his fist UNTIL the short stop has peeled off.

5. The rule is in place to prevent fielders from dropping a ball, then doubling off the runners. CLEARLY, when this dropped in left, the runners EASILY advanced, standing, into the next base. And it was Uggla and Ross, not Tim Raines and Rickey Henderson.

A HUGE moment in the game. The ex-umps on TV are saying the company line (correct call), but they are just protecting their own.

My favorite is the line where the umps in the game all agree with the call. Really?

THEN WHY DIDN'T THE THIRD BASE UMP EVER MAKE THE CALL, since it was his call, if he agreed with it.

Lifelong Braves fan, very, very tough pill to swallow.

Go get em tomorrow Gators. Do it for Darin Ross and Chipper Jones.

Today the blues invented the new outfield fly rule.

[Allanon]

Protest denied. Ump saw the replay and said he made the right call.

[Apeman]

Bad call, but go Cards. They're a dangerous postseason squad, even with all the injuries.

[Juggernautz]

Originally Posted by AzCatFan

One has to wonder if the MLB hired the NFL replacement refs to work the game. One of the worst calls ever.

I was thinking the same thing.

[RattlerGator]

Outrageously bad call. I'm still trying to figure out how the infield fly rule could even be considered when the infielder had gone so far out, he gave way to the OUTFIELDER !!!

Outrageously bad call.

[go7gator]

It was not a bad call. First, the rule requires an infielder to camp under the ball, and it does not matter if he is in the outfield when doing so. Kozma camped.

Second, the third base umpire and the left field umpire each lifted their arms to make the call the moment Kozma camped under the ball.

Third, the Braves have players who have never experienced the stress of a do-or-die game, except perhaps those that they choked in last September. Those players made errors that little leaguers don't even make. To Chipper's credit, he said after the game that the call did not cost the Braves the game. But when a team is as hapless under pressure as the Braves, the self-serving impulse is to blame someone else. Let's not forget... the Braves blew almost every run-scoring opportunity they had last night. Braves got a gift two-run homer when the ump gave Ross a second chance to we another pitch after being struck out.

Braves fans are a disgrace to baseball. Throwing beer cans onto the playing field en masse. They should have been escorted out of the stadium -- none were -- and the Commissioner's office should have called a forfeit. It took 30 minutes to clean the field. The Cards' set-up man stood around on the mound and wasn't allowed to warm-up again after the delay. This meant lifting him and bringing in their closer an inning early. Ridiculous.

This was a bad day, but not because of any thing the umps did on the infield fly.

[RattlerGator]

Damn, go7 -- that's the first outrageously bad post I remember you making ;-)

[ovillegator]

Just glad Chipper got a base hit in his last at bat, with his mom, dad and kids watching.

As for the call, probably a bad one but an honest one. It seems the ump misunderstood the fielder's 'peeling off', which upon replay looked more like he either lost the ball or thought he heard the outfielder calling him off.

But bad calls are part of baseball, and this one didn't decide the game. Calls go both ways.

However, the fans were atrocious. They came close to losing the game outright for their team by continuing to throw stuff on the field -- had this not been a playoff game, the umps might well have forfeited it. They showed restraint in not doing so.

[BillGator97]

What made the call so bad was how late it was. But it was late because it took the shortstop quite a bit to run back and get into left field for an "ordinary effort" catch. I'm not a Braves fan, but that was a HORRIBLE call.

[RattlerGator]

And, go7's opinion (IMHO) is the problem when people (including umpires) get overly anal about these rules and forget the derivation of the rule.

This rule is about arbitrarily creating a situation where infielders force EXTRA outs.

Damn sure wasn't going to be a force-out on this play.

What, if an infielder "camped" under a ball in that situation in the middle of left field (damn near what happened), that rule applies? What if he "camps" under it out at the warning track??? I thought one of the announcers made the appropriate assessment last night. This mistake was entirely caused by the extra ump, "camped" (how do you like them apples!?!) out down that left field line. His perspective is completely screwed and because he's watching the infielder follow the ball, he's thinking infield.

Except the damn thing was in the outfield and the guy wasn't "camped" under it, he got under the ball and almost immediately gave way to the outfielder. No player "camped" under the ball gives way like that.

Outrageously bad call.

[AustinGator1]

Horrible call but it in no way cost the Braves the game. The Braves did an excellent job of that all by themselves.

One good thing that might come of it though is calls that poor on a big stage such as yesterday gets the ball rolling towards replay for baseball which is long overdue.

Pretty easy call when seen on replay. Easy to fix too as all the replay official needs to do is eliminate the out, put a runner at all bases and play ball.

[TWGator]

There were a few bad calls. I thought the "timeout" granted to Ross was horrible, as well. And, while it was nice to see Chipper leg that last hit out, he should have been called out - yes, Craig got pulled off the bag, but he did recover and get back in time. Should have been the last out of the game. My biggest issue with the blown call on the infield fly (and I am a Cards fan) was the timing - he made it way too late. Kozma COULD have camped out under it, but peeled off because he thought Holliday was calling him off.

Anyway, for Braves fans to blame that ONE call on the outcome of the game is a little like Cubs fans saying the reason they don't have a World Series banner rests solely on Steve Bartman. Was it a huge moment that COULD have turned the game? Absolutely. But by no means should anyone ASSUME that the Braves would have come all the way back. It's not like it was a one-run game at that point. St. Louis was up by 3 and, had the infield fly rule not been invoked, they would have STILL been up by 3 at that point. Again, you can't just assume Atlanta would have erased that deficit.

What killed the Braves was their OWN miscues. For a team that has been so sound defensively all year to collapse and give up 4 unearned runs on 3 errors - THERE'S your difference. Without those miscues...my Cards are packing up their clubhouse today, instead of getting ready to face Washington...

[RattlerGator]

I don't disagree with you, TW, on the Braves beating themselves but I sure as hell would have loved to see how that rally would have played out in the spirit of the moment with Turner Field rocking.

[oxymoron]

Bad call by the umps and big time choke by the Braves who had 12 hits, only 3 runs and 3 big errors. Hats off to Gator fan Chipper Jones on a HOF career. The sports writers in Atlanta such as Schultz rave about what a standup guy Chipper has been.

[TWGator]

Yeah. Even as a Cards fan it sucks to see Chipper go out like that - making such a huge error that contributed so much to the outcome of the game. As a baseball fan - I'm gonna miss that guy...

[halleygator]

go7:

The reason behind the rule is to prevent the double play. The umps have to know that at some point (certainly 70 feet into the outfield), there is ZERO danger of the ball being intentionally dropped and then being picked up and thrown to third base and then second base BEFORE the runner from first can run to second...especially since the runner on first is always at least HALF WAY to second as those plays unfold.

So there was NO reason to "stretch" the call as the umpires did last night. All they did was open up a whole new can of worms in baseball.

Infielders for a century have used "decoys" and other tactics to win games. Every real fan of the game knows that infielders "deke" runners by faking the fielding of ground balls whenever a fly ball is hit. In fact, Lonnie Smith and the Braves lost a World Series due to this.

NOW... every time a fly ball is hit over an infielder's head in situations where the infield fly is in effect (runners at 1st and 2nd or bases loaded with less than two outs)... the infielder can just run out and start waving his arms and calling the ball... and get an automatic out.

TERRIBLE call. Made by an ump who wanted to look smart but was too dumb to know better. Something Ron Zook would have done.

[TruGator]

Originally Posted by go7gator

It was not a bad call. First, the rule requires an infielder to camp under the ball, and it does not matter if he is in the outfield when doing so. Kozma camped.

Second, the third base umpire and the left field umpire each lifted their arms to make the call the moment Kozma camped under the ball.

I don't think this is the proper analysis. The infield fly rule should be invoked on a play involving ordinary effort. The short stop running fifty feet into left field is not ordinary effort. Second, the call needs to be made immediately. The call last night was made a split second before the ball hit the ground. Terrible call.

[outbackjack]

Originally Posted by go7gator

It was not a bad call. First, the rule requires an infielder to camp under the ball, and it does not matter if he is in the outfield when doing so. Kozma camped.

Second, the third base umpire and the left field umpire each lifted their arms to make the call the moment Kozma camped under the ball.

Third, the Braves have players who have never experienced the stress of a do-or-die game, except perhaps those that they choked in last September. Those players made errors that little leaguers don't even make. To Chipper's credit, he said after the game that the call did not cost the Braves the game. But when a team is as hapless under pressure as the Braves, the self-serving impulse is to blame someone else. Let's not forget... the Braves blew almost every run-scoring opportunity they had last night. Braves got a gift two-run homer when the ump gave Ross a second chance to we another pitch after being struck out.

Braves fans are a disgrace to baseball. Throwing beer cans onto the playing field en masse. They should have been escorted out of the stadium -- none were -- and the Commissioner's office should have called a forfeit. It took 30 minutes to clean the field. The Cards' set-up man stood around on the mound and wasn't allowed to warm-up again after the delay. This meant lifting him and bringing in their closer an inning early. Ridiculous.

This was a bad day, but not because of any thing the umps did on the infield fly.

Go7

1. Wrong
2. Wrong

1. The infielder was never camped....he never even reached the spot the ball eventually landed. He was running the entire time, until the point of giving way.

2. The beauty of DVR is you can easily frame by frame this. The SS gives way, the umps arm is down, the ball is closing in on the grass, AND THEN THE ARM GOES UP.

There is ZERO debating it. Rewatch it.

[dunwoodychris]

Originally Posted by outbackjack

Go7

1. Wrong
2. Wrong

1. The infielder was never camped....he never even reached the spot the ball eventually landed. He was running the entire time, until the point of giving way.

2. The beauty of DVR is you can easily frame by frame this. The SS gives way, the umps arm is down, the ball is closing in on the grass, AND THEN THE ARM GOES UP.

There is ZERO debating it. Rewatch it.

This...Go7 is wrong.

[Spurffelbow833]

Also annoying, and yet one more thing about modern sports media that I detest, is how the broadcast crew thought it was so necessary to lecture us on how everyone should feel about the fan reaction to the bad call.

And when a streaker disrupts a game, show the damn streaker! I don't care about your pious, politically correct sanctimony! I can decide for myself whether another person's actions are appropriate!