Workout with sons.

[Allanon]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

That seems like an AWFUL lot of volume to me. That could be part of the problem.

But there are at least two ways I know of to enhance starting power on bench press: (1) paused presses and (2) speed presses.

One way to accomplish (2) is simply to preform your warmup reps crisply and quickly.

Just to make sure I was clear. We don't do all of that in the same workout. Bench and squat are different days and we don't do all of the other exercises all on the same day.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by Allanon

Just to make sure I was clear. We don't do all of that in the same workout. Bench and squat are different days and we don't do all of the other exercises all on the same day.

Gotcha. I just saw a bunch of sets and reps and it made my left eyelid spasm.

[Allanon]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

Gotcha. I just saw a bunch of sets and reps and it made my left eyelid spasm.

When I read your response that was the first thing I thought of. I really thought he would have improved his maxes but like I said I can tell he is stronger from working out with him even if it has not translated to max amounts.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by Allanon

When I read your response that was the first thing I thought of. I really thought he would have improved his maxes but like I said I can tell he is stronger from working out with him even if it has not translated to max amounts.

If he's looking to improve maximal strength then the generally recommended range is 1-5. But I would imagine that all those reps have him looking pretty jacked.

[Allanon]

He is like his brother was at this age. He is wiry but he has functional strength. It just doesn't translate to the weight room necessarily. He has really shot up the last year and a half and added 18, 19 pounds since this time last year. He just doesn't look like he has gained weight because he has gotten so much taller.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by Allanon

He is like his brother was at this age. He is wiry but he has functional strength. It just doesn't translate to the weight room necessarily. He has really shot up the last year and a half and added 18, 19 pounds since this time last year. He just doesn't look like he has gained weight because he has gotten so much taller.

I can tell you that my son experienced a near miraculous transformation from the time we began training together, when he was 16, over about a year's time. He employed a basic upper-lower split and stuck primarily to a 6-8 rep range.

He was what I'd call 'skinny-fat' to begin with and probably lost twenty pounds of fat while gaining around twenty pounds of muscle. I surmise that this was the case because his weight remained stable but he took several inches off his waist while adding several inches to chest/arms/thighs.

And as an example of how his strength increased his deadlift went from 135 to 405 in the course of the year.

Funny thing is that his mom is as skinny as I am. I chalk up his gains to consistency, compound movements and sticking to a heavy-ish rep range.

The one thing he went wild on was pushups. He did them all the time and I really do suspect that that was the best thing for his pec development, probably his best bodypart.

[Dreamliner]

Oh, and this was key, I suspect: he kept the reps low to medium and added weight to the bar week after week. He was a pretty tough bird about it.

[Allanon]

His brother and I have talked about his workouts and he just says he is doing heavy stuff in his football workouts so he thought it would be better to have him do the lighter weight with more reps routine in ours. One problem is in football they lift, run, do ladders, jump, etc. They are on a timetable so some days they may not get completely finished with lifting if someone is slow that day.

I read the Smolov, Jr. thread and we may give it a go when we get back from vacation.

[LeafUF]

Originally Posted by Allanon

I read the Smolov, Jr. thread and we may give it a go when we get back from vacation.

Awesome. Let us know how it goes.

Looking back to the program we were put on for freshman football I would never do it again. Still I made amazing gains back then just because I was such a novice. Have you looked at any other lifting programs or books like starting strength? There are a lot of good resources out there.

[Allanon]

I've looked all over the place for information. I've read stuff from Contreras, Nilsson, Bolton, Del Monte...

And, of course, right here on GatorCountry.

I am open to any and all info to help us in our quest.

[Dreamliner]

Don't worry. Young people grow and become stronger almost by dint of getting older. Add in a little progressive resistance exercise and they WILL gain muscle and strength. It just comes a little easier to some kids than to others.

That said, I am NOT a big proponent of crazy volume or high-frequency training like some of the trainers you referenced are. IMO, one of the best things you can do for your kids is NOT to develop training angst.

[LeafUF]

If I were a beginner or novice today I think I would start with something like the starting strength routine or the fairly similar stronglifts 5x5.

Give those a Google.

[Dreamliner]

FWIW, I'd recommend Stronglifts before SS for two reasons: (1) Stronglifts starts with just the bar and builds gradually and (2) I wouldn't want my kid getting fat drinking a gallon of milk a day.

[Allanon]

Here are some rough calculations comparing where the 15 YO would start when we get back from vacation and where he would be by the end of July if these programs work like they say they will.

Right now he weighs 148, his 1 rep bench max is 155 and his 3 rep squat max is 190.
He has been lifting with the football team the entire school year along with the extra work he puts in with me and his brother.

So with Smolov, Jr., he would start his bench at 110 and, conservatively, be working out with 130 by the end of July. Possibly more.

His squat would start at 135 and be up to 155 or more.

With Stronglifts he would start his bench, according to their chart, at 70 and finish at 90. That is not realistic so if we start at the same place as Smolov, 110, he would finish at 130.

His squat would start at 90 and end at 145. Or if we started as with Smolov he would start at 135 and finish at 160.

Starting Strength, let's say he starts at 110 he would finish at 160 on his bench. His squat would start at 135 and end at 190.

Now, obviously, the number of sets and the reps are different for each program. But which program will really get him to those numbers. If Starting Strength works like those numbers say then his workout weight in a month on his bench would be more than his current max and his workout weight on his squat would be the same as his current 3 rep max.

What do you think?

[LeafUF]

All of them would mean significant improvements in max strength. If he ends the month with working sets of 5 for any those weights it would be excellent. As you can see from my smolov thread I am liking it however I am only focused on the one lift and just hoping to maintain my others. So it may not be right for your sons goals currently.

With starting strength you can focus on both the squat and bench and make progress in both. Plus with so much focus on squatting he will build a great base and probably gain some weight. People forget that bench is really a full body exercise.

With respect to dreams preference for sl 5x5 he makes good points and it does produce very consistent gains with more volume than ss. Of course you can just do ss and not gomad but still eat a ton. Rippetoe thinks you should pack on as much muscle and weight as possible and then get rid of any fat gained later.

I imagine the month of July is critical because 2 a days start in early August?

[Allanon]

Off topic for a moment. Please forgive me for not abbreviating Starting Strength. I have always had a major interest in history and most especially the WW2 era and I just cannot use those letters for anything else.

[LeafUF]

I didn't even think of that, I was just on my tablet and typing was a pain in the butt for a minute.

[Allanon]

Originally Posted by LeafUF

I didn't even think of that, I was just on my tablet and typing was a pain in the butt for a minute.

It is just one of my things I guess.

[Allanon]

Originally Posted by LeafUF

All of them would mean significant improvements in max strength. If he ends the month with working sets of 5 for any those weights it would be excellent. As you can see from my smolov thread I am liking it however I am only focused on the one lift and just hoping to maintain my others. So it may not be right for your sons goals currently.

With starting strength you can focus on both the squat and bench and make progress in both. Plus with so much focus on squatting he will build a great base and probably gain some weight. People forget that bench is really a full body exercise.

With respect to dreams preference for sl 5x5 he makes good points and it does produce very consistent gains with more volume than ss. Of course you can just do ss and not gomad but still eat a ton. Rippetoe thinks you should pack on as much muscle and weight as possible and then get rid of any fat gained later.

I imagine the month of July is critical because 2 a days start in early August?

August 6.

[Dreamliner]

Of course 5 X 5 advocates GOMAD too. I think it's patently absurd to imagine that anyone, even kids have to gorge on calories to gain appreciable muscle. My son sure didn't. Rippetoe is a goofball on this particular count and there are respected trainers who are not afraid to blaspheme him on this (and probably some who are afraid to).

Moreover, my son never, ever squatted ... and his quads blew up. He deadlifted, on average, once a week and probably did leg press even less frequently than that. Any BTW, guess who does leg presses ? That's right, the world's top bodybuilders.

So, FWIW, I'm calling BS on 'have to squat' and 'have to stuff your face' to get jacked and strong.