Coming "Back"

[nggator]

Almost 8 months since back surgery; fusion L5 S1
Went to doc at 7 months, he was pleased, basically released me.
I asked him about lifting (he should know because he is a bodybuilder) and this is what he said:
No cleans, no deadlifts;
Could squat, low or body-weight, great form.
Basically everything else use common sense.
One thing that bothered me a little and I really didn't get a great explanation was that he said no jogging ever. Treadmill, cycling, walking ok.
So I've been working out since, with normal problems: soreness, stiff, lack of energy, longer time to recuperate, but at least I can do something physical again!
I've always been on a "program" of some type, but find it very difficult now. Thoughts or recommendations would be very appreciated.

[kuto22]

I have had the same surgery L-5, S-1 plus a C-6/C-7 fusion and all I can recommend to you is no running, squating, no cleans or deadlifts. If you play tennis, you don't anymoe. Golf is fine as long as you learn a swing that works for you. Actually my surgery was great for my game because it made me swing the rightway and I play 10 strokes better. You will have days where you feel the pain in the leg, back of knee or in the butt and those days you take it easy. The drug Gabentin (nerve block) has became a good friend of mine. I have just had 2 friends who had the exact surgery and one is a unne and the other is big into tennis and both just had second sugeries. Becareful and take care.

[kuto22]

Runner (damn keys)!

[Dreamliner]

Offhand I'd say that all these contraindications are a good reason to avoid spinal fusion surgery. Or maybe your doctor is full of crap and doesn't realize how resilient the human body is.

At various times in my life I've been told never to play tennis again (due to tennis elbow) and never to lift more than ten pounds overhead (due to mild scoliosis).

[Dreamliner]

Special note: Lamar Gant was probably pound-for-pound the best deadlifter in history. He had scoliosis so severe that when lifting in excess of 75% of 1RM he had a deviation of 70 degrees. Did you understand what I just typed ? His spine bent SIDEWAYS.

[nggator]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

Special note: Lamar Gant was probably pound-for-pound the best deadlifter in history. He had scoliosis so severe that when lifting in excess of 75% of 1RM he had a deviation of 70 degrees. Did you understand what I just typed ? His spine bent SIDEWAYS.

I don't need you to talk down to me! If you will remember I posted on 6/22/11, check out your response, pretty encouraging, the type of thing which I would expect from someone who trains people.
I cannot change what has happened, I can only move forward. I am looking for the type of lifts, the type of programs that I know I can do and feel good about my progress.
All I was asking for was recommendations, suggestions toward getting remotely back to where I feel like an athlete.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by nggator

I don't need you to talk down to me! If you will remember I posted on 6/22/11, check out your response, pretty encouraging, the type of thing which I would expect from someone who trains people.
I cannot change what has happened, I can only move forward. I am looking for the type of lifts, the type of programs that I know I can do and feel good about my progress.
All I was asking for was recommendations, suggestions toward getting remotely back to where I feel like an athlete.

Lighten up. My recommendations and thoughts stand. Doctors often rush to operate. Not surprising as that's what they do. They also tend to be unnecessarily conservative in their exercise prescriptions.

[nggator]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

Lighten up. My recommendations and thoughts stand. Doctors often rush to operate. Not surprising as that's what they do. They also tend to be unnecessarily conservative in their exercise prescriptions.

I was not challenging your recommendations and thoughts, actually I was hoping you would reply, because I respect your opinions, methods, and practices. Yes, I am aware of your response 6 months ago. Now that I am ready to take it to another level, I was searching out for more answers from this forum and in particular you!

As you pointed out I also believe that doctors tend to be conservative, the very reason I was reaching out to you and these forums.

It is not easy to find information on what I'm looking for. I can guarantee it's not in Spine-Health, an excellent overall web-site.

I will continue to move forward and I will continue to read this forum as well as the usual favorites.

[LeafUF]

I don't have any specific recommendations because im not familiar with your injury. But from my own experience I found that I could eventually return to exercises I was told not to do. And I have done so with no issues. It did take quite a while to get back to it though. I think I was two years removed from surgery before I felt comfortable again with my old routines and now im doing everything I did before though I stay mindful of abnormal pain.

[nggator]

Originally Posted by LeafUF

I don't have any specific recommendations because im not familiar with your injury. But from my own experience I found that I could eventually return to exercises I was told not to do. And I have done so with no issues. It did take quite a while to get back to it though. I think I was two years removed from surgery before I felt comfortable again with my old routines and now im doing everything I did before though I stay mindful of abnormal pain.

I guess "patience" truly is a virtue.
You sound like quite a success story. It really is a difficult "injury" to deal with.
Thanks!

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by nggator

I was not challenging your recommendations and thoughts, actually I was hoping you would reply, because I respect your opinions, methods, and practices. Yes, I am aware of your response 6 months ago. Now that I am ready to take it to another level, I was searching out for more answers from this forum and in particular you!

As you pointed out I also believe that doctors tend to be conservative, the very reason I was reaching out to you and these forums.

It is not easy to find information on what I'm looking for. I can guarantee it's not in Spine-Health, an excellent overall web-site.

I will continue to move forward and I will continue to read this forum as well as the usual favorites.

I'm sorry if it seemed like I snapped. Truth is, this thread is not about you. Rather, it touches on things that really irritate me.

If you google, say, 'deadlift + spinal fusion', you will find ample numbers of people who are deadlifting and squatting considerable amounts of weights after spinal fusion.

Offhand I'd say do whatever you want, as long as it does not cause pain or injury, but work up to it very gradually.

I do have a question about running though. Why do you want to do it ? Do you enjoy it ?

[halsgator]

Dreamliner, you speak with such authority. Putting down surgeons (8 to 10 yrs. prep). By what experience gives you the authority to tell others what medical advice is appropriate for those with serous and I mean serious back problems.?

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by halsgator

Dreamliner, you speak with such authority. Putting down surgeons (8 to 10 yrs. prep). By what experience gives you the authority to tell others what medical advice is appropriate for those with serous and I mean serious back problems.?

The knowledge as to the causes of back pain - and its cure - is public domain. The one thing you can fairly say, without coming off like a blowhard, is that I don't have any business preforming surgery.

[Dreamliner]

nggator -

Further thoughts:

While you can conceivably do anything you want, the really good news is that there is no such thing as an exercise that "you can't do without." That includes deadlifts and squats. Rack pulls, for example, will suffice for deadlifts. And unilateral leg exercises, ranging from Bulgarian Split Squats to various one-legged squats, will suffice for squats. and free weight advocates love to demonize the leg press, yet it's typically the quad exercise of choice for elite bodybuilders.

[el_lagarto]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

The knowledge as to the causes of back pain - and its cure - is public domain. The one thing you can fairly say, without coming off like a blowhard, is that I don't have any business preforming surgery.

the CAUSES of back pain may be public knowledge, but the CAUSE of a single individual's back pain is, until phony hacks on message boards gain wider acceptance, best left up to professionals. particularly when you get to the point where surgery is considered.

but anyway. i agree with you on post surgery fitness, that surgeons and most licensed professionals are quite a bit conservative in their advice.

morgan and morgan: so what happened?

post fusion pt: i had back surgery a year ago, my surgeon recommended dead lifts and pistol squats and jogging. my back hurts and my new surgeon says i need a revision.

morgan and morgan(salivating): did ...he... put... those recommendations.... in ..................writing?

-----

morgan and morgan: so what happened?

post fusion pt: i had back surgery and some yahoo on my gator board said to do dead lifts, pistol squats, and jogging and now i need a revision.

morgan and morgan(yawning): dont listen to internet message board yahoos for medical advice. now GTFO.

if your livelihood is dependent on a license you dont stray too far from 'usual and customary'.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by el_lagarto

the CAUSES of back pain may be public knowledge, but the CAUSE of a single individual's back pain is, until phony hacks on message boards gain wider acceptance, best left up to professionals. particularly when you get to the point where surgery is considered.

but anyway. i agree with you on post surgery fitness, that surgeons and most licensed professionals are quite a bit conservative in their advice.

morgan and morgan: so what happened?

post fusion pt: i had back surgery a year ago, my surgeon recommended dead lifts and pistol squats and jogging. my back hurts and my new surgeon says i need a revision.

morgan and morgan(salivating): did ...he... put... that.... in ..................writing?

-----

morgan and morgan: so what happened?

post fusion pt: i had back surgery and some yahoo on my gator board said to do dead lifts, pistol squats, and jogging and now i need a revision.

morgan and morgan(yawning): dont listen to internet message board yahoos for medical advice. now GTFO.

I'll leave it to others to huff and puff when doctors are criticized. I'll leave it to you to ascribe authority to a sleazebag like Morgan.

[el_lagarto]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

I'll leave it to others to huff and puff when doctors are criticized. I'll leave it to you to ascribe authority to a sleazebag like Morgan.

alrighty then. cheers.

[Dreamliner]

*thumbs up*

[nggator]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

nggator -

Further thoughts:

While you can conceivably do anything you want, the really good news is that there is no such thing as an exercise that "you can't do without." That includes deadlifts and squats. Rack pulls, for example, will suffice for deadlifts. And unilateral leg exercises, ranging from Bulgarian Split Squats to various one-legged squats, will suffice for squats. and free weight advocates love to demonize the leg press, yet it's typically the quad exercise of choice for elite bodybuilders.

Thanks a lot, these are the type of things I was looking for. I never thought of googling deadlift + spinal fusion; Much appreciation;
As far as jogging/running, I don't really want to do that, but I would like to be able to play tennis. It was suggested to just play doubles.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by nggator

Thanks a lot, these are the type of things I was looking for. I never thought of googling deadlift + spinal fusion; Much appreciation;
As far as jogging/running, I don't really want to do that, but I would like to be able to play tennis. It was suggested to just play doubles.

Here's where it's never a bad idea to dig in a bit when a doctor tells you not to do things. Questions like, 'Why would singles tennis, as opposed to doubles tennis, be a bad idea post-fusion surgery ?" My thing is that doctors are typically quite conservative. I do understand why they would be. But it is your perfect right to ask for clarification. Further, you can and probably should do your own research.

Obviously, singles is more strenuous than doubles. But doubles subject the body (and spine) to similar forces. You have the same shock impact, albeit slightly less of it, unless your partner sucks. And with your serving and stroking you have the same, relatively violent torquing actions.