Modern Warfare 3 Midnight Release

[chrisleakfan4life]

Check out this awesomeness




Hardened edition is really nice

[helix139]

I give this one a sollid "meh," at least for multiplayer. Not particularly innovative, and it appears all the good level designers left IW and went to Respawn because what is in MW3 is worse than what was in Black Ops and far below the great maps in MW1 and MW2. Each of those I liked the vast majority of the larger maps right away, but I really only like a couple in MW3 and not all that much. Most are not very vertical at all, and there aren't a lot of open, unobstructed spaces for overwatch/sniping. Several areas look like they would be pretty cool if you could get to them, but you can't. Invisible walls and such like in Black Ops. Big disservice to snipers in this game. You're going to run and gun, or you're going to die.

In the first two games, I absolutely loved:

Ambush
Backlot
Bloc
Bog
Crash
Crossfire
Downpour
Overgrown
Pipeline
Strike
Afghan
Derail
Estate
Favela
Highrise
Invasion
Quarry
Rundown
Scrapyard
Underpass
Wasteland

That's really a ton of maps, and there were others I liked, but these were my favorites and MW3 just doesn't capture the style of play from those types of maps all that well. Those all had places that were tough to get to, but if you could manage you'd be rewarded with a position where you could just take over a game if you were skilled at hitting a moving target from a distance, picking and choosing your spots and staying hidden in between, and had the right perks. This one seems like it even forces snipers to run and gun, with the majority of shots being of the short to medium range variety, the locations not very well shielded or camouflaged, and the sightlines generally very obstructed.

This link confirms it. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...amper-friendly

Someone needs to explain to Sledgehammer that there is a difference between camping and sniping, difference being that when sniping you generally don't have much of a chance at close range against someone who manages to flank you or break through your sniping line. This just hoses people who like to use positioning and stealth to set up shots. Yes, shots from across the map. I guess I just made the mistake of thinking that getting shot from across the map by a skilled sniper who has position on you from that particular angle was a part of playing a balanced FPS.

I wish I would have known this before I bought the game. I never would have picked it up. As is, since I already have it I'll probably play through the single player, but I'll be going back to Battlefield for multiplayer. For snipers or those who don't like being forced into a single style of play, it's far superior, despite its lack of a 1-hit kill Barrett .50.

[demosthenes]

I have been enjoying the campaign. I am still getting used to the multiplayer though. I can go from 3 and 14 one game to 16 and 6 the next. part of that is not knowing the maps and also not playing on my playstation for close to 8 months

the graphics seem improved on both modes so I am enjoying that.

[gatormoe1]

Originally Posted by demosthenes

I have been enjoying the campaign. I am still getting used to the multiplayer though. I can go from 3 and 14 one game to 16 and 6 the next. part of that is not knowing the maps and also not playing on my playstation for close to 8 months

the graphics seem improved on both modes so I am enjoying that.

This is because of the punk arse campers. As the game goes on they will stop being scared of learning a new map and will move around more.

The only things I don't like about this game are the match making (fixable) and the fact that there are a lot of objects such as dumpsters and cars that I can't clime on.

[ThomasGoldkamp]

Originally Posted by helix139

I give this one a sollid "meh," at least for multiplayer. Not particularly innovative, and it appears all the good level designers left IW and went to Respawn because what is in MW3 is worse than what was in Black Ops and far below the great maps in MW1 and MW2. Each of those I liked the vast majority of the larger maps right away, but I really only like a couple in MW3 and not all that much. Most are not very vertical at all, and there aren't a lot of open, unobstructed spaces for overwatch/sniping. Several areas look like they would be pretty cool if you could get to them, but you can't. Invisible walls and such like in Black Ops. Big disservice to snipers in this game. You're going to run and gun, or you're going to die.

In the first two games, I absolutely loved:

Ambush
Backlot
Bloc
Bog
Crash
Crossfire
Downpour
Overgrown
Pipeline
Strike
Afghan
Derail
Estate
Favela
Highrise
Invasion
Quarry
Rundown
Scrapyard
Underpass
Wasteland

That's really a ton of maps, and there were others I liked, but these were my favorites and MW3 just doesn't capture the style of play from those types of maps all that well. Those all had places that were tough to get to, but if you could manage you'd be rewarded with a position where you could just take over a game if you were skilled at hitting a moving target from a distance, picking and choosing your spots and staying hidden in between, and had the right perks. This one seems like it even forces snipers to run and gun, with the majority of shots being of the short to medium range variety, the locations not very well shielded or camouflaged, and the sightlines generally very obstructed.

This link confirms it. http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...amper-friendly

Someone needs to explain to Sledgehammer that there is a difference between camping and sniping, difference being that when sniping you generally don't have much of a chance at close range against someone who manages to flank you or break through your sniping line. This just hoses people who like to use positioning and stealth to set up shots. Yes, shots from across the map. I guess I just made the mistake of thinking that getting shot from across the map by a skilled sniper who has position on you from that particular angle was a part of playing a balanced FPS.

I wish I would have known this before I bought the game. I never would have picked it up. As is, since I already have it I'll probably play through the single player, but I'll be going back to Battlefield for multiplayer. For snipers or those who don't like being forced into a single style of play, it's far superior, despite its lack of a 1-hit kill Barrett .50.

Only played for a few minutes last night, but you pretty much summed up how I felt to a T. Way too much run and gun, which I'm really not a big fan of. The maps suck. The physics and motion are only slightly improved. Battlefield 3 beats the hell out of this game.

[gatormoe1]

Originally Posted by ThomasGoldkamp

Only played for a few minutes last night, but you pretty much summed up how I felt to a T. Way too much run and gun, which I'm really not a big fan of. The maps suck. The physics and motion are only slightly improved. Battlefield 3 beats the hell out of this game.

Camper

[ThomasGoldkamp]

Originally Posted by gatormoe1

Camper

Haha, campers don't die as much as I do...

[Nacho_Bandit]

So, is it worth the money or do I buy Battlefield 3 instead?

[ThomasGoldkamp]

Originally Posted by Nacho_Bandit

So, is it worth the money or do I buy Battlefield 3 instead?

Depends on your playing style. If you love COD, go with MW3. If you're one of those people that's open to trying other games and you liked some of the bigger maps and slower-paced, more tactical games in COD, then I'd say go with Battlefield 3.

I think the game engine for Battlefield 3 beats the hell out of Modern Warfare 3. MW3 is essentially the same thing as Black Ops with a slightly tweaked scoring and leveling-up system (similar to BF3, actually) and new maps.

[helix139]

Originally Posted by Nacho_Bandit

So, is it worth the money or do I buy Battlefield 3 instead?

Based on the multiplayer only (still haven't played singleplayer for either), not worth it. Get battlefield instead, unless you just absolutely love to run around like a noob with his head cut off in close quarters, quickscoping, noob tubing, and dropshotting like crazy without much strategy. MW3 is geared for the 12-year-old ADHD spray and pray crowd that keeps going back to the same place they just got their head blown off by a sniper or someone controlling a choke point and then complains about "campers."

They should call this COD: Modern Warfail. I'm really disappointed as I enjoyed the multiplayer on MW and MW2 a lot, and this is really a big departure. Same engine, mostly same guns, but level design forces you into one style of play and one style of play only. Everyone I've talked to at work (except for one fanboy) agrees with me, and one already has his copy on craigslist. Just a massive letdown.

[gatormoe1]

Originally Posted by helix139

Based on the multiplayer only (still haven't played singleplayer for either), not worth it. Get battlefield instead, unless you just absolutely love to run around like a noob with his head cut off in close quarters, quickscoping, noob tubing, and dropshotting like crazy without much strategy. MW3 is geared for the 12-year-old ADHD spray and pray crowd that keeps going back to the same place they just got their head blown off by a sniper or someone controlling a choke point and then complains about "campers."

They should call this COD: Modern Warfail. I'm really disappointed as I enjoyed the multiplayer on MW and MW2 a lot, and this is really a big departure. Same engine, mostly same guns, but level design forces you into one style of play and one style of play only. Everyone I've talked to at work (except for one fanboy) agrees with me, and one already has his copy on craigslist. Just a massive letdown.

There are plenty of places to camp if you want to. This is what MW2 should have been and its the reason everyone was so let down after COD4. The majority of the COD community wanted a game based mostly on gun battles. The levels are all complex with long sight lines and a lot of close quarter points too. I suggest you spend more time trying to find a spot to camp if thats what you want to do, there are plenty of spots with longer sight lines if you're good enough to hold them.

Also, you say you liked MW2 which was newb tube and one many army city but you're complaining about newb tubes in MW3 when people rarely use them and the damage has been dropped considerably? If you don't like MW3, you don't like gun battles, its that simple because they delivered a nice gun battle game that isn't overly dependent on killstreaks.

IF you want to camp, run around long periods of time without finding an enemy, have slow "realistic" movement, and drive vehicles around then go for BF3.

If you want fast action in your face gun battles and lots of different game types, go for MW3.

[ThomasGoldkamp]

Originally Posted by helix139

Based on the multiplayer only (still haven't played singleplayer for either), not worth it. Get battlefield instead, unless you just absolutely love to run around like a noob with his head cut off in close quarters, quickscoping, noob tubing, and dropshotting like crazy without much strategy. MW3 is geared for the 12-year-old ADHD spray and pray crowd that keeps going back to the same place they just got their head blown off by a sniper or someone controlling a choke point and then complains about "campers."

They should call this COD: Modern Warfail. I'm really disappointed as I enjoyed the multiplayer on MW and MW2 a lot, and this is really a big departure. Same engine, mostly same guns, but level design forces you into one style of play and one style of play only. Everyone I've talked to at work (except for one fanboy) agrees with me, and one already has his copy on craigslist. Just a massive letdown.

Sounds like you and I have the same mindset. Mostly, I just suck. So I prefer a game where me being intelligent about things actually pays off. I find that not to be he case with MW3 because of the playing style you're forced into.

[PIMking]

Idk I've enjoyed it so far, I like both bf3 and mw3 and haven't had a problem sniping. There are a few maps like the Paris one where a few can hold Down the top but I've been able to snipe pretty well. The bog complaint for me is not being able to play hardcore right away, oh do I hate playing core with a passion and thank god I had friend that invited me into a hc game.

Sent from my iPhone using GatorCountry

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by ThomasGoldkamp

Sounds like you and I have the same mindset. Mostly, I just suck. So I prefer a game where me being intelligent about things actually pays off. I find that not to be he case with MW3 because of the playing style you're forced into.

Meh I can out flank without issue. You just can't jump out and run like a maniac all the time

Sent from my iPhone using GatorCountry

[gatormoe1]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Meh I can out flank without issue. You just can't jump out and run like a maniac all the time

Sent from my iPhone using GatorCountry

Exactly, flank, stick to the outsides of the maps, know the spawns etc etc. It's a run and gun type of game but that doesn't mean you are forced into that style. I can camp, run and gun, snipe, flank, play objective or not.. all perfectly fine while keeping close to a 2.0 kd and my win loss record is like 32-4 or something right now.

[PIMking]

My K/D is just under 1 right now. It was mid 1.5's but I got on a kick with the bolt action rifle with ACOG and had a blast.

[Ericgraves]

I am not trying to attack modern warfare but a compare and contrast between moe and helix seems appropriate. I do prefer battlefield and thus my views are tainted so I will do my best to explain my "logic" behind my comments.

Originally Posted by helix

... and far below the great maps in MW1 and MW2.

Originally Posted by gatormoe

This is what MW2 should have been and its the reason everyone was so let down after COD4.

First of all "everyone was so let down" that they made black ops the best selling game in history. Some people may have been let down, but not the majority. It is reasonable to assume the majority enjoyed the level design, and the pace of play. Personally I believe it was pretty dang good and balanced. Although it could get frustrating at times.

Originally Posted by helix

This one seems like it even forces snipers to run and gun, with the majority of shots being of the short to medium range variety, the locations not very well shielded or camouflaged, and the sightlines generally very obstructed.

Originally Posted by gatormoe

The levels are all complex with long sight lines and a lot of close quarter points too. I suggest you spend more time trying to find a spot to camp if thats what you want to do, there are plenty of spots with longer sight lines if you're good enough to hold them.

I want to point out that helix didn't say he wanted to camp. In some sense camping and sniping are equivalent, both of them go to a place and set up shop and shoot people who may or may not be aware of their presence. But in terms of actually picking a spot camping and sniping are obviously very different. Helix is bemoaning the fact that it seems in an attempt to reduce the number of campers they have also reduced the places one can snipe from. Basically making it so that any location that would be good for sniping also leaves you highly visible which is a problem since sniping requires a lack of mobility at times. The long sight lines may exist, but aren't worth getting to if you are going to be killed before you can set your sights.

Originally Posted by helix

... unless you just absolutely love to run around like a noob with his head cut off in close quarters, quickscoping, noob tubing, and dropshotting like crazy without much strategy.

Originally Posted by gatormoe

Also, you say you liked MW2 which was newb tube and one many army city but you're complaining about newb tubes in MW3 when people rarely use...

Well both of you agree n00b tubing is annoying. But here the n00b tubing is being used as an example of the type of player the game attracts. This type of gameplay can be associated with a person who just runs around aimlessly trying to do whatever he can to gain an advantage at the price of skill. This is not a complaint about n00b tubes, but a complaint about the type of player the game is conforming to and the general lack of strategy.

Originally Posted by helix

MW3 is geared for the 12-year-old ADHD spray and pray crowd...

Originally Posted by gatormoe

The majority of the COD community wanted a game based mostly on gun battles.

Sorry but I couldn't resist.

[helix139]

Originally Posted by gatormoe1

There are plenty of places to camp if you want to. This is what MW2 should have been and its the reason everyone was so let down after COD4. The majority of the COD community wanted a game based mostly on gun battles. The levels are all complex with long sight lines and a lot of close quarter points too. I suggest you spend more time trying to find a spot to camp if thats what you want to do, there are plenty of spots with longer sight lines if you're good enough to hold them.

Also, you say you liked MW2 which was newb tube and one many army city but you're complaining about newb tubes in MW3 when people rarely use them and the damage has been dropped considerably? If you don't like MW3, you don't like gun battles, its that simple because they delivered a nice gun battle game that isn't overly dependent on killstreaks.

IF you want to camp, run around long periods of time without finding an enemy, have slow "realistic" movement, and drive vehicles around then go for BF3.

If you want fast action in your face gun battles and lots of different game types, go for MW3.

I don't camp and it's not that I don't enjoy gun battles, I just generally prefer mine to be at a greater distance where accuracy and patience can beat frantic stick-jockeying. I like being able to sneak around unnoticed, find a concealed, non-obvious location overlooking a high traffic area of the map, and take out multiple targets at distance with one well-placed shot. That is not camping. That is how a sniper realistically operates. If I miss, I'm screwed, and my position is given away. Rather than hiding in tall grass, covered buildings, or on high rooftops, and letting people pass by close to you as you wait for a clear shot at a target a considerable distance away, you're forced to stand in long hallways or open areas looking down medium-length target hallways where the people you're going to shoot can see you easily and are close enough to shoot back accurately and lethally.

MW3 does have a few long lines of sight, but chances are you're going to be nailed by run and gunners before more than 1 or 2 enemies happen to run into that long line of sight. it's more of a quick-scoper's game (which I just don't enjoy) and just doesn't have any real options for those who prefer to remain hidden. In MW and MW2, I could dictate my own style and be equally successful at any of them. This is a real departure from that.

And to be honest, the noob tubes in MW2 never bothered me because I could always pick them off at a distance well before they could get to me. Rather than complex, I'd describe the new levels as "cluttered" and very horizontal. Some have a slope to them, but they don't have true vertical components. With junk to quickly duck behind everywhere and multiple routes into every area, it's too easy to get in close, which is what kills the sniper's game. It's just not a viable option to play as anymore and have anywhere near the kind of success you can have running and gunning.

And honestly, i have no problem with a few close quarters levels in the game that snipers aren't viable options on, but pretty much EVERY level eliminates traditional sniper style gameplay or greatly reduces its effectiveness. IMO, that's just lazy level design. It's highly possible to allow both snipers and run-and-gunners to have their cake by designing certain parts of the larger maps to cater to each.

[rburnett]

Wow.. good comments on this thread, thank you all. Let me know if any of you guys try out the missions - COD has a legacy of some seriously awesome single player campaigns.

[gatormoe1]

I'm sorry sir but you are in fact a camper. Let me be clear though, I don't have any problems with campers, I do it myself sometimes. Just stating the obvious. Snipers are still campers. By definition a camper is someone that stays in one spot waiting for kills to come to him/her.

Like you said, BF is for players that like to take it slow and/or be more team oriented and MW is for people who want fast paced action all the time. I play BF every once in a while but much prefer MW and I can maintain a 2.0 KD in both.

To Graves:
Newb toobing is pretty much a thing of the past in COD. The tubes have had their damage dropped considerably and without One many Army, its almost pointless to use it. You almost have to directly hit someone to get a kill with the tube now.