Back on track

[Dreamliner]

^ This could be termed as Intermittent Fasting by means of the Condensed Eating Window.

[jdrgator]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

I think it's a fair question, jdr. However, I'm ambivalent about calorie deficits. I wouldn't normally advise a young, heavy man to go as low as 1,200. On the other hand, I don't see the harm in going as low as one can manage provided that they are getting in some strength training. I suspect that fear of muscle loss is somewhat exaggerated.

There is at least one reason why an aggressive calorie deficit and rapid weight-loss is preferrable. A new study shows that people who lose 10% of their bodyweight rapidly are more apt to keep the weight off than those who lose gradually. And just from a human nature standpoint, I can see where rapid, noticeable progress would provide the sort of motivation required to propel a person to their goals.

Interesting take. I can certainly see that angle.

[Dreamliner]

And bear in mind that whereas it is easy to lose bodyweight rapidly (my obese trainees will typically lose five pounds a week in the early going), it is difficult to lose fat rapidly, hence the importance (for some) of the aggressive calorie deficit.

[jdrgator]

Originally Posted by chrisleakfan4life

1200 calories a day puts me at about 2 pounds of weight loss per week.

Really is its not that hard to do, i usually dont eat until 11 am or 12 pm.

Try not to eat until 5, than i eat dinner snd maybe a snack later on that night.

My biggest problem is since im a night owl i tend to want to eat at night.

Sent from my iPhone using GatorCountry

I hear ya, but I would still be concerned about losing muscle especially if you are lifting to build muscle. Your muscles need nutrients to grow. It's why anorexics always look so bad. They lose muscle and bone density from the severe caloric and nutrient deprivation.

Muscle loss concern was the chief reason that I used to only "stagger" people's caloric intake when training them. I'd only let them go really low twice per week, max, otherwise they would be on a far less drastic lowered caloric intake. Plus, besides the "seasoned vets" that I trained whom I might push it for them, many were somewhat new to the industry and had a lifetime of bad habits, so my first goal was to ease and control how I'd introduce changes into their lives.

For myself though, in the past (1997), I've staggered my calories as well but only twice, maybe three times per week. And usually this meant about 1600-1800 cals. Anything less used to lead me to a bad reaction of overeating through picking at food.

On at least one day during the week, I'd take in my normal amount of calories (anywhere from 3-4k) or even a little above, and still managed to lose quite a bit of weight; I went from 230 to about 187 (to about 10% body fat) over the course of about 4 months doing it this way.

This routine benefited me in a few ways. Pysch-wise, it satisfied my need for sometimes less healthy food (on the one day, I'd go to normal calorie intake) and to just indulge a little bit without the "guilt." Also, I really believe it made me stronger by feeding my muscles the nutrients. Always had great workouts the day after!

By allowing myself this varied caloric intake and some "controlled indulgence," I rarely went off my diet since it was flexible enough to allow some indulgence but also strict enough to force my body to shed the fat while building muscle mass.

p.s. I also did it the wrong way before back in high school where I starved myself and exercised in rubber suits in a steam room to go from 200 to 167 for wrestling (coach wouldn't let me wrestle at the higher weights). I got there in a matter of five weeks but not without two trips to the hospital first.

[jdrgator]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

And bear in mind that whereas it is easy to lose bodyweight rapidly (my obese trainees will typically lose five pounds a week in the early going), it is difficult to lose fat rapidly, hence the importance (for some) of the aggressive calorie deficit.

Yes, so very true. I've seen when I trained people, and experienced it myself (see my above comments). So maybe the severe caloric restrictions would be something for the obese clients later on when they start plateauing, otherwise start them off with a more moderate reduction since their the bodies of obese people tend to respond quickly to shedding fat simply by getting them moving and eating somewhat healthier. But if they stick with it and get down quite a bit, it does get harder so their programs need to be fine tuned, so to speak.

[Dreamliner]

I do see the merit in staggering the calorie deficit. It's an approach that has worked for me. Clearly, there are myriad ways of skinning the cat.

That said, I am of the growing conviction that the sensation of hunger (which leads to overindulgence) is neither here nor there and need not be heeded. Indeed, that the habit can and should be broken. Innumerable people all over the planet have never had the luxury of going over and then under simply because they do not have access to enormous quantities of food like we Americans do.

And I ask my trainees to think about these people.

[Dreamliner]

Continuing: but whereas most of my trainees seem to prefer the regularity and predictability of a consistent eating strategy, for example, 1,500 calories a day, every day, no 'cheat days' ... nonetheless, I do urge them to program in some flexibility. Naturally they will go over some days. And so I tell them to go under by a corresponding amount the next day. So, although it is not a conscious strategy, they might get 1,700 on Monday and then 1,300 on Tuesday. No guilt. No frustration. Just rolling with the punches to stay on track.

[jdrgator]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

I do see the merit in staggering the calorie deficit. It's an approach that has worked for me. Clearly, there are myriad ways of skinning the cat.

That said, I am of the growing conviction that the sensation of hunger (which leads to overindulgence) is neither here nor there and need not be heeded. Indeed, that the habit can and should be broken. Innumerable people all over the planet have never had the luxury of going over and then under simply because they do not have access to enormous quantities of food like we Americans do.

And I ask my trainees to think about these people.

Excellent point. Indeed, I feel do feel guilt for my past over-indulgences on food. The goal is to get down and stay down, and to be mindful of the "embarrasment of riches" we have. It's certainly a choice not to give into such sensations!!!

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by jdrgator

Excellent point. Indeed, I feel do feel guilt for my past over-indulgences on food. The goal is to get down and stay down, and to be mindful of the "embarrasment of riches" we have. It's certainly a choice not to give into such sensations!!!

Amen! And I confess right here and now that I'm by no means above the fray. I certainly do have my moments!

[jdrgator]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

Continuing: but whereas most of my trainees seem to prefer the regularity and predictability of a consistent eating strategy, for example, 1,500 calories a day, every day, no 'cheat days' ... nonetheless, I do urge them to program in some flexibility. Naturally they will go over some days. And so I tell them to go under by a corresponding amount the next day. So, although it is not a conscious strategy, they might get 1,700 on Monday and then 1,300 on Tuesday. No guilt. No frustration. Just rolling with the punches to stay on track.

Another good approach. Stability in ones diet is important, since it allows the trainee to exact some measure of control over their lives. I think you made a great point above about the choice of giving in to hunger pangs. Training others (and oneself) to deal with that in a way that doesn't lead to wild fluctuations in intake is a good thing.

Lack of self-control is at the core of many obese/overweight persons. Add on to it the constant onslaught of food marketing designed to lure people into eating tasty/high caloric meals, and growth of bad eating habits in general makes training others lose weight/get in shape a tall order, to say the least.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by jdrgator

Another good approach. Stability in ones diet is important, since it allows the trainee to exact some measure of control over their lives. I think you made a great point above about the choice of giving in to hunger pangs. Training others (and oneself) to deal with that in a way that doesn't lead to wild fluctuations in intake is a good thing.

Lack of self-control is at the core of many obese/overweight persons. Add on to it the constant onslaught of food marketing designed to lure people into eating tasty/high caloric meals, and growth of bad eating habits in general makes training others lose weight/get in shape a tall order, to say the least.

And one of the things that frustrates me with people (who've forgotten more about nutritional science than I'll ever learn) is the failure to distinguish between direct and indirect causes of fat storage. They confuse people by talking as if hunger and myriad hormonal signals (insulin, etc.) store fat. But when I try to help people lose weight I do make it my aim to learn the things they do which, for them, either stem or trigger hunger so as tailor a weight-loss plan that works for them.

[your_perfect_enemy]

Originally Posted by jdrgator

Add on to it the constant onslaught of food marketing designed to lure people into eating tasty/high caloric meals, and growth of bad eating habits in general makes training others lose weight/get in shape a tall order, to say the least.

I've never thought this to have an effect until I started trying to limit my calories. I'm trying for about 1200/day myself and don't find it very difficult unless I make the mistake of watching Man v Food and find myself wanting to eat a 6 pound burrito

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by your_perfect_enemy

I've never thought this to have an effect until I started trying to limit my calories. I'm trying for about 1200/day myself and don't find it very difficult unless I make the mistake of watching Man v Food and find myself wanting to eat a 6 pound burrito

You CAN eat your 6 pound burrito. Be flexible. Just go under the next day by a corresponding amount.

Oh, wait.

[Dreamliner]

THE 'S' Diet

(S)maller plates.

(S)maller portions.

(S)avor, don't shovel.

(S)ame damned meals over and over again, quantifiability helps.

(S)lip ? Slide! Keep your feet moving. Flexibility is key.

No (S)econds.

No (S)nacking.

Eat your (S)ugar ... in moderation. Deprivation doesn't have an enviable track record.

It's okay to (S)kip meals, intermittent fasting is a live option.

(S)coff at hunger pangs. Who's the boss anyway ?

[jdrgator]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

You CAN eat your 6 pound burrito. Be flexible. Just go under the next day by a corresponding amount.

Oh, wait.

You just reminded me of something, which would have made it impossible to go under by a corresponding number of cals.

Having been out of the "industry" now for over a decade, I've forgotten some of the little things that I used to do when I trained heavily. And one of them was watching for hidden calories, especially in processed foods, and then adjusting accordingly (as you suggested) if I went over.

I realized this last week when I ordered a medium peanut power smoothie at Smoothie King (as a meal replacement after the gym, of which i went straight to work right after my training session). I though I had been ordering a lite smoothie, worrying only about the total cals. Well their lite one is about 600 cals, which at 300 lbs, my body handles the cals easily. But then I found out it wasn't the lite one but I had been drinking just their straight peanut power drink, and found out it was nearly 1600k at one pop!!! F$##$!!

Anyway, there is no balancing that out the next day since I am taking in about 2200-2400 a day. I simply cut SK out completely and just make my own or eat a few protein bars after my work out on the days that I teach.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by jdrgator

You just reminded me of something, which would have made it impossible to go under by a corresponding number of cals.

Having been out of the "industry" now for over a decade, I've forgotten some of the little things that I used to do when I trained heavily. And one of them was watching for hidden calories, especially in processed foods, and then adjusting accordingly (as you suggested) if I went over.

I realized this last week when I ordered a medium peanut power smoothie at Smoothie King (as a meal replacement after the gym, of which i went straight to work right after my training session). I though I had been ordering a lite smoothie, worrying only about the total cals. Well their lite one is about 600 cals, which at 300 lbs, my body handles the cals easily. But then I found out it wasn't the lite one but I had been drinking just their straight peanut power drink, and found out it was nearly 1600k at one pop!!! F$##$!!

Anyway, there is no balancing that out the next day since I am taking in about 2200-2400 a day. I simply cut SK out completely and just make my own or eat a few protein bars after my work out on the days that I teach.

Hehe, reminds me. Some, not all of my trainees do keep food journals. I couldn't figure out why one woman wasn't losing weight on 800-900 calories a day. Turns out she was forgetting ENTIRE meals. She even forgot the FOOT-LONG Philly Cheesesteak sandwich she had the night before. She later protested, "It was only one thing!" I pointed out that a 15-pound watermelon, only one thing, contained fewer calories than her sandwich. We are NOTORIOUS for: (A) underestimating calories consumed and overestimating calories burned.

[chrisleakfan4life]

I'm not trying to add muscle right now, just trying to tone up the arms a bit while trying to lose fat.

I'm not going for long term, i would rather lose weight first, see how i look and then look into building muscle.

For the time being i just want to try and tone up, not look like one of our Linebackers.

And i don't think my calorie intake has really taken away from my muscle toning work.

[chrisleakfan4life]

Well time to hit the Gym, LETS DO IT!

[chrisleakfan4life]

Got my first weight lifting session on a monday in. I only lifted once last week(Wednesday) as i was just exhausted from an adjusting schedule. I now have to drive my younger sister to high school every day which requires getting up at 7 am in the morning. Well I'm a night owl who is used to being up till 1 or 2 am every night so i was only getting about 5 hours of a night of sleep last week and it caught up to me by the end of the week.

Anyway last night i went to bed around 1:30 am but was smart enough to get some sleep before i had to work at 2 pm, so i slept from 8:30-1 pm today to make sure i got plenty of rest.

I had to make sure i went today as i did not go last Friday and i try to make sure i go at least 3 times a week so i need to go Wed and Friday as well.

[chrisleakfan4life]

Weighed in at 194.0 today so I'm within 9 pounds of my 185 pound goal which is my first goal.

I think my calendar idea that i started has been a good choice so far, it helps me to stay focused and take it one day at a time. One addition i made is that any time i go over my "calorie zone" (1200-1400 calories) i mark an X on that calendar date, but i also write down the amount of calories i took in so i know that i didn't take care of business to my fullest abilities that day.

It basically seems to work like those stars your teacher gave you in elementary school anytime you did something good(usually on some sort of calendar with all your class mates).

As silly and childish as it may sound i find it to be a very successful tool to keep me focused every day and it helps me to take it one day at a time.

It also helps me not get pissed off anytime i step on the scale and it says i gained 2-3 pounds. I was at 194.5-194.8 for a few days and it jumped up to 195.7 and i got pissed but the next few days it jumped right back down to where i had been at 194.5 and so i have data so i can see that my weight will fluctuate but it will go back down as long as im within my calorie count each day.

Anyway August 15 was the start of Week 3, i have anywhere from 9-12 weeks until it is around my birthday and i hope to be in the 170-175 range, I've got about 20-25 pounds left to get there, i might be able to do it by then but if i don't its not the end of the world, I'm just hoping to see a change in my pants/shirt sizes really.

My major goal right now is to get into around a 34" waist and be able to war basically a medium size shirt(i.e. Nike size medium for say a Gator t-shirt).

For my height im suppose to be able to fit into a small and have around a 30-32 inch waist i don't know if/when ill get to that point, but the 34" waist and medium size shirt is my primary goal.