Acorn-the ultimate boogeyman

[oragator1]

I am no Acorn fan, but I don't know where to begin with this, except to say that it's a pretty sad indictment on our society in general. Acorn doesn't even have offices in his district and there isn't a shred of evidence to back his claims, but that's not even the worst part of the story. Read on.

Losing NY-23 candidate Doug Hoffman became the latest in an increasingly long line of conservative politicians to blame his problems on ACORN yesterday despite the complete lack of evidence the organization played any role in his defeat.

The Republican base is with him though. PPP's newest national survey finds that a 52% majority of GOP voters nationally think that ACORN stole the Presidential election for Barack Obama last year, with only 27% granting that he won it legitimately. Clearly the ACORN card really is an effective one to play with the voters who will decide whether Hoffman gets to be the Republican nominee in a possible repeat bid in 2010.

Belief in the ACORN conspiracy theory is even higher among GOP partisans than the birther one, which only 42% of Republicans expressed agreement with on our national survey in September.

Overall 62% of Americans think Obama legitimately won the election to only 26% who think ACORN stole it for him, as few Democrats or independents buy into that line of thinking.

link

Obama won by 9.5 million votes, Them Acorn folks is powerful!

[JerseyGator01]

Fraudulent voting is so easy in this country, especially in my state which Obama won by a landslide. No I.D. required in Jersey - just a QUICK check at your sig. CORRUPTION RULES!!!!!

I could vote multiple times in a primary and likely not get caught here.

[gs_gator]

imagine if obama had won a state run by his brother by just 500 hundred votes...

[cjgator76]

The Republican base is with him though. PPP's newest national survey finds that a 52% majority of GOP voters nationally think that ACORN stole the Presidential election for Barack Obama last year, with only 27% granting that he won it legitimately.

Sounds like utter BS to me. I've seen every conceivable anti-Obama claim - most sane but others clearly not - on this board and elsewhere. I can't recall ever seeing even a hint that ACORN "stole" the election for Obama. Has the topic ever come up here?

I wonder if any similar numbers have been generated by pollsters who are less overtly agenda driven than Public Policy Polling.

From a Politico article on PPP's involvement in the 2010 NC senatorial race:

The firm makes its money by serving as the pollster to an exclusively Democratic roster of clients, ranging from members of Congress to dozens of state legislative and city council candidates. And CEO Dean Debnam has given generously to North Carolina Democratic candidates — including in races where his firm has conducted independent polling.
........

Though there’s little to indicate the firm’s Democratic affiliation on its website — clients are listed, but without partisan identification — [PPP pollster Tom] Jensen said PPP makes no secret of its politics.

“We’re absolutely rooting in the race. We don’t want Richard Burr to get reelected. We wanted Obama to win last fall,” said Jensen.

.......

The firm’s unconventional method of serving partisan interests while conducting independent polls that are widely reported on by the media has raised hackles among Republicans like Burr, who are on the receiving end of bad numbers. At the national level, Republicans gripe that news outlets don’t always report on the firm’s Democratic background.

.....

“It’s a unique arrangement. Where they’re different is they continue to work for campaign clients,” said Mark Blumenthal, a respected polling expert who serves as publisher of Pollster.com. “There’s not a huge conflict because they’re not releasing polling in races where they have a client. But [the Burr campaign] is perfectly within their rights to say this is a Democratic-leaning firm, so take their numbers with an appropriate grain of salt.”

[oragator1]

They also nailed the 2008 election results closer than almost any other polling group. But setting that aside for a second, you might not have heard this fear before, but here are a few articles and a youtube or 2:

McCain in 2008 a debate saying "We need to know the full extent of Sen. Obama's relationship with ACORN, who is now on the verge of maybe perpetrating one of the greatest frauds in voter history in this country, maybe destroying the fabric of democracy."

Palin saying "We can't allow leftist groups like ACORN to steal this election."

The Washington Times claiming a concerted effort by republicans to paint Obama and Acorn as stealing the election

The New Republic asking before the election if Acorn would steal it





False claims about
Acorn tilting a PA race

O Reilly and Malkin claiming Acorn might have tilted the Minnesota Senate race

Jim Quinn saying Acorn stole Minnesota

And that's just what I fond in a few minutes of searching. So the poll numbers actually don't surprise me because the seed was planted in many ways apparently and continues to be in other elections, but to answer your other question, I could not find any other polls that address the issue. I am sure someone else will do one now that this is out there.

[TR1228]

ACORN and groups like it certainly influence election results through their chicanery, but the efforts of that one group most likely didn't cover the entire vote gap in 2008.

That being said, however, that poll question is ridiculous because it offers no middle ground answer, i.e. "ACORN did illegally work to get Obama elected, but ACORN in and of itself probably didn't constitute the whole difference in 2008." That's what the vast, vast majority of Republicans and indeed Americans believe. In this poll, though, respondents were essentially forced to choose between "no, ACORN didn't do anything wrong" and "ACORN stole the election". If you asked Dems "Was GWB a super president, or was he Hitler?" you'd likely get more Hitler votes due to the lack of a middle ground answer.

[jdrgator]

Look, there is no question that election shenanigans have a long history in the US (and I imagine, everywhere such elections are held).

But "boogey-man" ACORN is simply not among the most pressing issues because

1) ACORN has more problems not with rigging elections but with their own workers ripping them off by falsifying voter registrations to make money (so yes some are criminal, but not a threat to the validity of elections)

and

2) all the evidence that I have seen presented, suggests that most of the election fraud allegations were isolated incidents carried out by rogue individuals, not organizational or systematic fraud.

On the other hand, I find the privatization of our voting far more worrisome and threatening to our democracy that rag-tag semi-volunteers signing up non-existent or dead people for $$ (who, mind you, would never be able to cast a vote anyway).

Given the opportunity for high tech manipulation and fraud, people of all political stripes should really be in unison about this issue.

Or how about taking on our antiquated electoral college system? I really don't think given actual presidential history that we need to worry about a native son being elected because they belong to some more populace state.

Or what about troubling election day schemes such robo-calling, phone jamming, caging, racial intimidation at voting booths etc..., all of which pose a far more imminent threat to sound elections than freakin ACORN.

[texigator]

The weak minded can fail to grasp the magnitude of the damage ACORN has done to our nation, not only economically, with their push for the implementation of the CRA, which led to the real estate and economic collapse, but also politically, by fraudulently determining the outcomes of unknown numbers of offices, but surely at least one or two Senate seats, which has given the tyrranical Demotards absolute power over us. But their failure to comprehend what has happened does not change the fact that our nation has quite probably been irreparably harmed.

And if the Looney Left DOES comprehend what has happened, then God help us.

[endabcs]

Originally Posted by texigator

The weak minded can fail to grasp the magnitude of the damage ACORN has done to our nation, not only economically, with their push for the implementation of the CRA, which led to the real estate and economic collapse, but also politically, by fraudulently determining the outcomes of unknown numbers of offices, but surely at least one or two Senate seats, which has given the tyrranical Demotards absolute power over us. But their failure to comprehend what has happened does not change the fact that our nation has quite probably been irreparably harmed.

And if the Looney Left DOES comprehend what has happened, then God help us.

I firmly believe that just as the 1%-5% of the "looney" or rather extremist left realizes that it's leading the leftist sheep in the direction it best suits their agenda, that the 1%-5% of the extremist right is doing the exact same thing. I also believe that the destination is the same.

[Zeus]

Originally Posted by gs_gator

imagine if obama had won a state run by his brother by just 500 hundred votes...

Gore would have won Florida in 2000 if "get-out-the-vote" Democrats in Duval county hadn't told minority voters to fill out every page of the voting ballot. Supposedly there were roughly 10 presidential candidates on pages one and two of the ballot, and around 20% of the votes in black precincts were tossed because they voted for more than one person for president. Black leaders tell black voters what to do, and in 2000 the black leaders were mad because, although Bush's "One Florida" plan would increase the number of poorer blacks getting into college (top 20% of a high school class was guaranteed admission), richer blacks like themselves who sent their kids to white schools would be at a disadvantage with the elimination of racial preferences. Enraged black leaders conducted a huge get-out-the-vote campaign but the instructions given to voters backfired.

[cjgator76]

Originally Posted by oragator1

They also nailed the 2008 election results closer than almost any other polling group. But setting that aside for a second, you might not have heard this fear before, but here are a few articles and a youtube or 2:


And that's just what I fond in a few minutes of searching. So the poll numbers actually don't surprise me because the seed was planted in many ways apparently and continues to be in other elections, but to answer your other question, I could not find any other polls that address the issue. I am sure someone else will do one now that this is out there.

That appears to be PPP's stock in trade - getting something "out there" so that the media will treat it as fact, whether or not it's true.

I haven't look at everything on your list, but based on the titles you gave the links it appears that not a single one involves a post-election claim that ACORN stole the election for Obama. Is that correct?

[Zeus]

Some are saying that the Democrats plan to pass a universal voter registration bill in 2010, which would automatically register every available voter. The bill make vote fraud easier, which will help the Dems, especially if they are successful in keeping voters from showing photo IDs (how can poll workers tell if it's really the right person voting?). Universal voter registration will also increase absentee ballot fraud.

[texigator]

Originally Posted by endabcs

I firmly believe that just as the 1%-5% of the "looney" or rather extremist left realizes that it's leading the leftist sheep in the direction it best suits their agenda, that the 1%-5% of the extremist right is doing the exact same thing. I also believe that the destination is the same.

I agree, but it is the extreme Left that has a death grip on us now with their absolute power over legislation and their complete indifference as to the impact their agenda will have upon our nation. This is the most extreme domestic challenge to our national security that I've ever witnessed and the Democrats are barrelling full speed ahead into the iceberg.

[endabcs]

Originally Posted by texigator

I agree, but it is the extreme Left that has a death grip on us now with their absolute power over legislation and their complete indifference as to the impact their agenda will have upon our nation. This is the most extreme domestic challenge to our national security that I've ever witnessed and the Democrats are barrelling full speed ahead into the iceberg.

I wouldn't disagree with that. A left wing, slightly racist co-worker and friend of mine is pissed of at Obama, because he said (and this is a direct quote), "If it were Bush, he would have said,' F#@k it, I'm doing it because I have control of congress.'"

I would agree that we should focus on the now, and not the past, learn from it but not say, "it was okay when he did it, therefore it's okay if my guy does it."

[vertigo0923]

Originally Posted by JerseyGator01

Fraudulent voting is so easy in this country, especially in my state which Obama won by a landslide. No I.D. required in Jersey - just a QUICK check at your sig. CORRUPTION RULES!!!!!

I could vote multiple times in a primary and likely not get caught here.

so does that apply to your newly elected republican governor?