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Old 11-02-2009, 12:42 PM   #1
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Default JFK assassination

I was watching 'Mad Men' on AMC last night. The episode takes place over the course of the November weekend JFK was assassinated. The characters are watching it all unfold on TV. A couple of things struck me. First, it reminded me strongly of 911. The way the entire country was affected. The reactions of the characters as they watch it all on TV. There are no other singular events since WW2 that compare to JFK and 911. I can't think of anything that even comes close. I was in my mother's womb when the assassination took place, so I didn't experience it first hand. But watching the characters' reactions on Mad Men last night reminded me of that feeling I had after 911.

The second thing that struck me was what a perfect suspect Lee Harvey Oswald was. We hear Oswald's details start to come out as the characters are watching the TV reports. The Soviet connection, the Cuba connection, et al. Then we see Jack Ruby come in and put an end to Oswald. It was all so perfect. Coupled with all of the other questions involved surrounding the assassination, I simply can't imagine that there was no conspiracy. Oswald had to be a setup. No earth shattering revelation for me, since I've always felt there was a conspiracy. But it was interesting to experience it as it unfolds in a sort of real time on Mad Men last night.
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:48 PM   #2
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I'd submit that the Challenger disaster comes close dangole (though you're right it's probably "second tier" behind those particular events). It was one of those events that if you were in existence, you knew exactly where you were when it happened ..
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:57 PM   #3
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I'd submit that the Challenger disaster comes close dangole (though you're right it's probably "second tier" behind those particular events). It was one of those events that if you were in existence, you knew exactly where you were when it happened ..
You're right. That was a big one. I remember that cold morning well.
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Old 11-02-2009, 01:17 PM   #4
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"Mad Men" is the best show on TV right now. Will watch it 2nite on DVR.
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:36 PM   #5
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I've always favored the mob conspiracy myself. Was it in conjunction with the CIA? Don't know if I can go that far, but I feel pretty confident that organized crime was at least one half of the equation. The simple fact that the government says there was no conspiracy means there was one.
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:40 PM   #6
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A description of the "suspect," allegedly seen fleeing the scene, was put out on the police radio about 15 minutes after the JFK shooting, before Oswald or any other known person was under suspicion. The suspect was described as about 5'10", 165 pounds. This description did not match Oswald. However, it did match an erroneous description of Oswald (5'10", 165 pounds) found in a pre-assassination CIA memo (about Oswald in Mexico City). What a dadgum coincidence!

The government's "investigators" later tried to determine the source of the police description of the suspect in Dallas 15 minutes after the crime. They found only that the description was provided by an "unidentified citizen." I wonder who the citizen worked for.
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:44 PM   #7
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I heard it was a conspiracy between the mafia, cuban operatives and russians.
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Old 11-02-2009, 04:55 PM   #8
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If you are old enough, tell us where you were on that sad November day.

I was in the Army stationed in Germany at an outstation about 10 klicks from the East German border, the zonengrenza. That day some of us had driven into Kassel- about 30miles west of our detachment - to watch the movie, "The Longest Day" about D-Day [in English with German subtitles]. When we got back to the out post, everybody was being called in and told about what had happened to our President. At that time nobody knew what was going on - whether this was the start of WWIII, or just some nut with a grievance against our President. The plan, if you want to call it that, was that we would blow up our facitilty which was an intelligence gathering post and walk out down the mountain we sat on top of and leave all of our privately owned vehicles [POVs] to the East Germans and/or the Russians. There were a few tense hours until it was determined that Oswald was apparently a lone gunman and there was no plot to take out the Vice President or Cabinet officers, as had happened in the Lincoln assassination.

We didn't have the TV factililties to follow what was going on on American TV. We had German TV, but my German wasn't nearly good enough to follow in detail what was happening. The closest we came to that was the Stars and Stripes newspaper for the service people that we got at the detachment.
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Old 11-02-2009, 05:13 PM   #9
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I was in 10th Grade P.E. at Escambia High School, Pensacola, Florida, the first period after lunch (5th period, I believe) when the bells of Little Flower Catholic Church just across the street suddenly began tolling. That had never happened before and struck me as unusual. The sky was gray and the ceiling was low that afternoon, with clouds swirling about like it was the beginning of a cold front coming through. Something in the atmosphere seemed somewhat ominous, but I couldn't put my finger on exactly what it was.

When we were dressing in after P.E., somebody in the locker room said that the President had been assassinated. It was hard to believe.
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Old 11-02-2009, 06:02 PM   #10
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I was in 10th Grade P.E. at Escambia High School, Pensacola, Florida, the first period after lunch (5th period, I believe) when the bells of Little Flower Catholic Church just across the street suddenly began tolling. That had never happened before and struck me as unusual. The sky was gray and the ceiling was low that afternoon, with clouds swirling about like it was the beginning of a cold front coming through. Something in the atmosphere seemed somewhat ominous, but I couldn't put my finger on exactly what it was.

When we were dressing in after P.E., somebody in the locker room said that the President had been assassinated. It was hard to believe.
I was helping my dad in a cotton field in central California. Don't why I wasn't in school. Some fellow came out and told he heard it on the radio.
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Old 11-02-2009, 06:04 PM   #11
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I was walking down the stairway in the UF East Library when someone said the president had been shot. The two comments I remember from fellow students after the news broke that JFK was dead was a girl in my English class who said, "That's too bad. I liked him," and a guy who lived across the hall from me who said, "I'm glad they shot the son of a bitch."
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Old 11-02-2009, 08:39 PM   #12
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dangolegators: "...I simply can't imagine that there was no conspiracy..."
If you are reasonably intelligent and read "Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy" by Vincent Bugliosi, it will be impossible for you to believe that the killer of JFK was anyone other than Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone.

Bugliosi looks at the assassination from every angle and answers virtually every objection to the "Oswald acted alone theory." Case closed.
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Old 11-02-2009, 11:45 PM   #13
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If you are reasonably intelligent and read "Reclaiming History: The Assassination of President John F. Kennedy" by Vincent Bugliosi, it will be impossible for you to believe that the killer of JFK was anyone other than Lee Harvey Oswald, acting alone.

Bugliosi looks at the assassination from every angle and answers virtually every objection to the "Oswald acted alone theory." Case closed.
If you are reasonably intelligent and read the linked review of Bugliosi's book (just for starters), it will be impossible for you to believe that Vincent Bugliosi is not full of sh*t. But of course being full of sh*t can be very lucrative, as can be seen in B's expensive tome and the sale of the movie rights to another full-of-sh*t notable, Tom Hanks. Sh*t pays.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com...v5n1mantik.pdf
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Old 11-02-2009, 11:59 PM   #14
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I was in 6th grade in Lakeland.. I remember the anguish on all of the teacher's faces while we waited for our parents to pick us up.. Strange days in deed (right after the Cuban boycott)...
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Old 11-03-2009, 12:58 AM   #15
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Common sense would tell you the Republicans did it. But back then the Republicans were much nicer.
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Old 11-03-2009, 01:24 AM   #16
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I'd submit that the Challenger disaster comes close dangole (though you're right it's probably "second tier" behind those particular events). It was one of those events that if you were in existence, you knew exactly where you were when it happened ..
Yep. I was about 3 and a half months shy of my 4th birthday on the morning of the Challenger explosion. I was going to half-day preschool at the time and we had gone out to watch the launch. When the launch happened I remember that it didn't look how it was supposed to look. Then the mood of the adults and teachers changed immediately. Our parents were there to pick us up at about the time of the launch, and I can remember looking at the Y-shaped trails from the solid rocket boosters all the way home (we lived due east of the school...in central FL). I didn't understand it completely at the time, being only 3, but I still remember that I knew it just wasn't right.

When Columbia went down I was sitting in a room at the UF Foundation at a conference. I freaked because at that time I knew a couple astronauts and I couldn't find out if they had been on that mission or not. Took me a few days to find out they weren't on the mission and thankfully were safe.
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Old 11-03-2009, 01:32 AM   #17
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Yep. I was about 3 and a half months shy of my 4th birthday on the morning of the Challenger explosion. I was going to half-day preschool at the time and we had gone out to watch the launch. When the launch happened I remember that it didn't look how it was supposed to look. Then the mood of the adults and teachers changed immediately. Our parents were there to pick us up at about the time of the launch, and I can remember looking at the Y-shaped trails from the solid rocket boosters all the way home (we lived due east of the school...in central FL). I didn't understand it completely at the time, being only 3, but I still remember that I knew it just wasn't right.

When Columbia went down I was sitting in a room at the UF Foundation at a conference. I freaked because at that time I knew a couple astronauts and I couldn't find out if they had been on that mission or not. Took me a few days to find out they weren't on the mission and thankfully were safe.
Yeah, I was in Jr. High in the library researching a science project when it happened. I'll never forget the bottom dropping out of my equilibrium since at that point, being an astronaut was the one thing I really wanted to do in life...
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Old 11-03-2009, 02:40 AM   #18
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Yea having the Challenger explosion as basically my first memory in life is probably one of the reasons I am the way I am also...
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Old 11-03-2009, 08:06 AM   #19
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If you are reasonably intelligent and read the linked review of Bugliosi's book (just for starters), it will be impossible for you to believe that Vincent Bugliosi is not full of sh*t. But of course being full of sh*t can be very lucrative, as can be seen in B's expensive tome and the sale of the movie rights to another full-of-sh*t notable, Tom Hanks. Sh*t pays.

http://www.assassinationresearch.com...v5n1mantik.pdf
Did I just imagine a dramatic drop-off in your JFK conspiracy posts after you took a look at the book back in 2007? Conspiracies are fun to talk about and I agree with you on the OKC bombing, but Bugliosi is overwhelmingly persuasive. I'll take a look at your link later today.

From a Bugliosi interview comes this excerpt on the "magic bullet" theory which is completely and utterly refuted in the book:

Quote:
Lindley: You explain how the “Magic Bullet” wounded both JFK and Governor Connally.

Bugliosi: These conspiracy theorists not only lie when they’re controverting documentary evidence, but they also lie when there’s actual photographic evidence disputing what they’re doing. In their sketches, they place governor Connally [directly] in front of President Kennedy in the presidential limousine, and then they argue that a bullet coming from the right rear, passing through Kennedy, from right to left, would have had to make a right turn in midair and then a left turn to hit Connally.

If you start with an erroneous premise, everything that follows makes a heck of a lot of sense. The only problem is that it is wrong. There’s no question that Connally was not seated directly in front of Kennedy in the presidential limousine. He was seated to his left front. I have a photograph in Reclaiming History showing exactly where they were seated, and right along side of it I show sketches that they put in conspiracy books, [with Connally] right in front and the bullet is making a right turn and a left turn. But he was seated to [JFK’s] left front in a jump seat a half-foot in so the orientation of Connally’s body vis a vis Kennedy’s was such that a bullet passing on a straight line, through Kennedy, would have no where else to go, except to hit Governor Connally.

At the trial in London (a mock trial-Zeus) Gerry Spence asked [forensic pathologist Dr.] Cyril Wecht to characterize this bullet and he said, “It’s a magic bullet.” Bullets don’t even do this in cartoons, make right and left turns. On cross examination, I said “Dr. Wecht would you concede this bullet passed in a straight line through Kennedy’s body, soft tissue, if it did not go on to hit Governor Connally, as you claim it did not, how come it didn’t tear up the interior of the limousine, or hit the driver?” He said, “I don’t know. I didn’t conduct the investigation in this case.” I said, “Dr. Wecht, it sounds like you have your own magic bullet, because if it did not hit Governor Connally, did not tear up the interior of the limousine, did not hit the driver, it must have zigzagged to the left.” He said, “No, it may not have zigzagged to the left.” I said, “Well, did it hop, skip and jump over the car?” He said, “No, it did not have to perform any remarkable feat.” Then I said, “Dr. Wecht, what happened to that bullet after it exited the president’s throat,” and he said, “I don’t know.” If we are to believe the conspiracy theorists, after this bullet exited the president’s throat, apparently, it vanished, without a trace, into thin air. They’re the only ones that have the magic bullet, and they’ve taken this magic bullet and wrapped it around the neck of the Warren Commission for all these years.

http://hnn.us/articles/41490.html


The photographs and diagrams in the book are devastating to the magic bukket theory. At the end of the book Bugliosi goes through 53 pieces of evidence that finger Oswald as the killer. Here's 5 pieces of evidence from the interview:

Quote:
Bugliosi: Quickly, five pieces: Oswald’s Mannlicher-Carcano rifle was the murder weapon. That’s pretty heavy by itself. Oswald was the only employee at the Book Depository Building who fled the building after the assassination. Forty-five minutes later, he shoots and kills Officer J. D. Tippit, Dallas Police Department. That murder bore the signature of a man in desperate flight from some awful deed. Thirty minutes later at a Texas theatre he resists arrest, pulls a gun on the arresting officer. During his interrogation, [Oswald] told one provable lie after another, showing a consciousness of guilt.
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Old 11-03-2009, 08:29 AM   #20
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My Father always said he thought LBJ was behind it. So many want to make out like Kennedy was some sort of great guy and wonderful president. He and his entire family were a bunch of womanizing crooks.
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