Catholic Hospital: Fetuses Aren’t People in Malpractice Lawsuit

[MichiGator2002]

Originally Posted by corpgator

Then why, if there's no connection, did the get so upset about having to pay for birth control?

This is absurd. They are completely within their bounds to protest and advocate new and existing law. Nobody is under any obligation to pretend existing law is something other than what it is, though. I submit any such institution here would trade greater civil exposure for a world in which there was no mixed message or ambiguity and the unborn were recognized as human life for every purpose under the law. But they have no need to pretend they are already in that world.

What seems to be going on here is that people are mad that their own morally questionable law is now actually an obstacle to socking it to the RCC. Like I said, Catholics are in fact allowed to benefit from irony.

[gatorev12]

Originally Posted by wargunfan

It was the state which enacted the law. The hospital, no matter its affiliation, is under no obligation to refuse the protection of the same law in order to damage itself financially. But the secular folks can always be counted on to try to make some connection, no matter how vague, between the church and hypocrisy. This attempt falls far short of connecting the Catholic church to anything at all.

Probably the most salient observation in this thread.

[GatrHeel]

Originally Posted by MichiGator2002

This is absurd. They are completely within their bounds to protest and advocate new and existing law. Nobody is under any obligation to pretend existing law is something other than what it is, though. I submit any such institution here would trade greater civil exposure for a world in which there was no mixed message or ambiguity and the unborn were recognized as human life for every purpose under the law. But they have no need to pretend they are already in that world.

What seems to be going on here is that people are mad that their own morally questionable law is now actually an obstacle to socking it to the RCC. Like I said, Catholics are in fact allowed to benefit from irony.

I think you're blending the client with their counsel. Certainly the folks who are up in arms about this are too.

Although I've already said it's unclear (to me) whether the hospital is the equivalent of the Catholic Church, it sounds like you're willing to accept that it is. So let's reduce the argument to a simpler form:

Let's imagine the father sued Pope Benedict personally. You would see nothing inconsistent in the Pope condemning laws that allow abortions Saturday through Thursday, but then embracing such a law on Friday to defend against the lawsuit?

The Church believes the secular laws that define life as not beginning until birth are morally wrong. I would propose that the Church's entire stance concerning life rests, largely, on moral grounds.

You can't pretend that morality wouldn't play a role in the stripped down scenario of the father vs. the Church.

[wargunfan]

Originally Posted by GatrHeel

I think you're blending the client with their counsel. Certainly the folks who are up in arms about this are too.

Although I've already said it's unclear (to me) whether the hospital is the equivalent of the Catholic Church, it sounds like you're willing to accept that it is. So let's reduce the argument to a simpler form:

Let's imagine the father sued Pope Benedict personally. You would see nothing inconsistent in the Pope condemning laws that allow abortions Saturday through Thursday, but then embracing such a law on Friday to defend against the lawsuit?

The Church believes the secular laws that define life as not beginning until birth are morally wrong. I would propose that the Church's entire stance concerning life rests, largely, on moral grounds.

You can't pretend that morality wouldn't play a role in the stripped down scenario of the father vs. the Church.

You are attempting to set up a strawman by removing the hospital from the equation. We can play all manner of semantic games which ignore the facts of the case. The facts are what they are no matter how desperate one is to make the church a target. I am not a Catholic nor a defender of the Papacy but I refuse to indict the pope or the RCC for a tragedy in which they played no part.

[GatrHeel]

Originally Posted by MichiGator2002

It isn't inconsistent at all. Are they supposed to be under a positive moral obligation to ignore the law as it stands, to their detriment? Are FairTaxers also not supposed to itemize their deductions?

Apparently they have decided they are, indeed, under a moral obligation to do just that.

"In the discussion with the Church leaders, CHI representatives acknowledged that it was morally wrong for attorneys representing St. Thomas More Hospital to cite the state's Wrongful Death Act in defense of this lawsuit. That law does not consider fetuses to be persons, which directly contradicts the moral teachings of the Church," Catholic Health Initiatives said in a statement.

It promised that attorneys for the hospital would not cite the Wrongful Death Act in any future hearings.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/02/04/us/col...html?hpt=hp_t3

[gatorev12]

^so much for the arguments about the Church being inconsistent/hypocritical.

[Dreamliner]

Ah, those are some warm memories, when my wife was carrying our 'fetus.' We even gave the undifferentiated mass a pet name.

[wargunfan]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

Ah, those are some warm memories, when my wife was carrying our 'fetus.' We even gave the undifferentiated mass a pet name.

And how is your zygote doing?

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by wargunfan

And how is your zygote doing?

It is about to graduate from UNF. My wife and I are still trying to decide on whether to keep it. We suspect we will.

[wargunfan]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

It is about to graduate from UNF. My wife and I are still trying to decide on whether to keep it. We suspect we will.

Congratulations on your post partum position. It is reassuring to a fetus to know that they were "wanted".