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JohnC1908 · 03-14-2013, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACCecil

Welker and Fitz play essentially different positions. It isn't Welker's role to stretch the field vertically because Welker, as a slot guy, mostly exploits the middle of the field and under coverages. So comparing Welker to Fitz just so you can diminish Welker is BS.

It's not to "diminish" him. It just proves he's nowhere in the same ballpark. He runs 7 yards and catches the ball. Lets not forget also the guy drops a ridiculous amount of passes.

99gator · 03-14-2013, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACCecil

Welker and Fitz play essentially different positions. It isn't Welker's role to stretch the field vertically because Welker, as a slot guy, mostly exploits the middle of the field and under coverages. So comparing Welker to Fitz just so you can diminish Welker is BS.

I like the anology of Doering vs. Dubose.

Athletically, Debose is gifted. Doering, while not a plow horse, isn't exactly jaw dropping in his skill set. Yet, production wise it isn't even close. And when the game is on the line who would you rather have on the field? Don't lie and say Dubose.

It was Doering who made key ctach after key catch in clutch situations. Welker has done as much for the Pats. It is the difference between fantasy football and real football.

I rest my case.

It's a terrible rigged analogy.

Dubose has done nothing.

I compared apples to supposed apples.

Doering had the best numbers but wasnt the best wr on his team.....or cloae to it.

Welker has great numbers so people put him in the class of other great wrs.

He's not andre johnson, fitz, etc.

Not close

OaktownGator · 03-14-2013, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnC1908

It's not to "diminish" him. It just proves he's nowhere in the same ballpark. He runs 7 yards and catches the ball. Lets not forget also the guy drops a ridiculous amount of passes.

The dropped passes this season (I don't think he did this in the past did he?) was definitely an issue with him and perhaps a sign that age is catching up to him.

Most likely, Welker will catch a ton of passes from Manning and make that offense more difficult to stop. The guy is effin great at getting space in the slot role and moving the chains. And he's tough - you take a beating in that role but he plays a very high percentage of snaps.

The Pats won't get the same production out of the slot without him. But they probably don't care too much with the TEs they have. Different type players to accomplish similar goals. If the Pats have more injury issues at TE, they will probably regret losing Welker... and Pats fans will let them know about it.

qwghlmgator · 03-14-2013, 10:39 AM

Welker is a fantastic receiver. Heck he was twice as good as the best receiver the Jags have had in the last five years. But, he will be 32 by next season and has a lot of mileage on him (lots of catches = lots of hits). I think this was a big part of why the Pats weren't willing to break the bank to keep him.

ACCecil · 03-14-2013, 11:04 AM

Welker's age is an issue. That's fair.

My main point is that saying Welker sucks, or any version of that, or is overrated, or isn't all that good, or anything along those lines is BS and not supported by his stats.

Saying he isn't as good as so and so is just as rigged and saying Doering was more productive than Dubose. In fairness, Dubose has one more year and could blow up this year and make bazillions in the NFL.

High school and college hot shots who flame out at the next level are a dime a dozen. Talk is cheap. Welker has gotten it done over 5-6 years, I'll give him credit for that. High school and college hot shots get coaches fired. Guys like Welker get coaches championships and rings.

I rest my case.

Gator Mike · 03-14-2013, 01:52 PM

Pats will adjust their scheme. They'll win 11+ games and the AFC East next year, because that's what they do.

It's just a matter of seeing what else they can do to improve the defense that determines how far they can go.

leogator · 03-14-2013, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qwghlmgator

Welker is a fantastic receiver. Heck he was twice as good as the best receiver the Jags have had in the last five years. But, he will be 32 by next season and has a lot of mileage on him (lots of catches = lots of hits). I think this was a big part of why the Pats weren't willing to break the bank to keep him.

Yeah, and Brady is old and so is Manning. But I would take them over anybody out there. Welker is a great receiver to have when you're trying to move the chains and make first downs. The Broncos have other receivers that can go deep. He's the best at what he does, a slot receiver that goes over the middle. People are bringing up his drops. Have you guys looked at Brady and how many times he either led him too much or threw behind him? Perticularly in the first half of the season. Quick routes require great timing and you can't develop that if your coach is punishing for something real or imagined.

4everaGator · 03-14-2013, 03:45 PM

Yeah Welker had some dropsies this year, not so much in the past. He is a great slot receiver. I like him as a player, too bad he's playing for horse face now. I can't pull for Denver with Elway still running things after how he handled Tebow.

Now the Pats still have Jeff Demps, who could be developed into everything Welker is and more, once he hangs up his track shoes for good. He can put on some more bulk and play the slot with the threat to take it to the house cuz Demps needs about 3 steps to get to the speed where almost no one can catch him.

nawlinsgator · 03-14-2013, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99gator

wes welker tops the list of most overrated football players in the nfl

he will put up numbers again playing for peyton manning and people will continue to speak of how great he is.

"Overrated" would mean he's rated higher than he's suppose to be. You keep comparing him to Fitzgerald...nobody has ever said in is better than Fitzgerald, or Calvin Johnson, or whoever.
But he is the best slot receiver in the game. Period.
And I guess if he puts up monster numbers with Peyton Manning, it somehow proves you right? That's just bizarre.

OaktownGator · 03-14-2013, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nawlinsgator

"Overrated" would mean he's rated higher than he's suppose to be. You keep comparing him to Fitzgerald...nobody has ever said in is better than Fitzgerald, or Calvin Johnson, or whoever.
But he is the best slot receiver in the game. Period.
And I guess if he puts up monster numbers with Peyton Manning, it somehow proves you right? That's just bizarre.

The more catches he has, the more overrated he'll be.

And the fewer catches he has, the more overrated he'll be.

It's unassailable.

vaxcardinal · 03-14-2013, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1

Exactly.

but welkers wife is so much hotter...

tommyuf21 · 03-14-2013, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by your_perfect_enemy

he started his career in miami, I don't know who the qb was when he was there, but I'm sure he was terrible

Welker started in San Diego, an undrafted free agent. He made it through camp and was waived, unclaimed and then offered a spot on the practice squad. He wisely declined and wound up getting picked up by the Dolphins. Marty Schottenheimer said that Welker was one of the biggest mistakes he ever made as a coach in a personnel decision.

Welker was Miami's key returner on special teams, especially during his first year in Miami in 2004.

Gus Ferrotte was the QB in 05. In 2006, it was Culpepper and Harrington. Putting things in perspective, Welker exceeded his 2006 season statistics after his 10th game in New England.

Welker was a restricted free agent in 2007, and the Dolphins got a 2nd and 7th pick for him from NE. Mueller, Miami's GM at the time, didn't seem to value him very much and I'm assuming that Camoron didn't either.

In hindsight, it looks terrible for Miami. However, you have to wonder if Welker would have had half the career catching passes from the motley crew of QB's that Miami has had since 07. I'll make the exception of Pennington, who would have done well with Wes in 2008.

Swampmaster · 03-14-2013, 08:02 PM

brady's wife--glad to see welker go---he got her mad with all those drops in the super bowl

horanic · 03-16-2013, 10:16 PM

So now except for DT they pretty much have entirely new offense from what TT had in Denver. Obviously Doucheway knew it was only TT that was the problem.

rpmGator · 03-16-2013, 10:54 PM

A deep throw for Manning is now ten yards. The Ravens crowded and jammed recievers and all Denver get's with Welker is another guy going deep, five yards downfield.

Manning will have another great stat year, make a few million and go home without a title.

Wormwood56 · 03-17-2013, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 99gator

It's a terrible rigged analogy.

Dubose has done nothing.

I compared apples to supposed apples.

Doering had the best numbers but wasnt the best wr on his team.....or cloae to it.

Welker has great numbers so people put him in the class of other great wrs.

He's not andre johnson, fitz, etc.

Not close

OK, a question. If Doering was not even close to being Florida's best receiver in 1995, why was he Danny's go-to guy? If there were much better receivers on the Gators, why didn't THEY get the rock thrown to them more often?

Canton has a building filled with busts of receivers no different than Welker. Fred Biletnikoff comes readily to mind. Quarterbacks love a receiver that can consistently get open and catch the balls that are thrown to him, time after time after time. That in itself has FAR more value than someone who can do the acrobatic catch. Pure physical skills do not necessarily overcome the cerebral gifts a great possession receiver has. If the speed burners are greater, the QB would go to them more, but the percentages are lower.

Look at the years of Air Coryell. They had spectacular wideouts like John Jefferson and our own Wes Chandler, but it was Kellen Winslow and Charlie Joiner that got the lion's share of the passes. Ditto at Miami with Nat Moore, another great Gator, at least until Duper and Clayton got to Miami.

demosthenes · 03-17-2013, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nawlinsgator

"Overrated" would mean he's rated higher than he's suppose to be. You keep comparing him to Fitzgerald...nobody has ever said in is better than Fitzgerald, or Calvin Johnson, or whoever.
But he is the best slot receiver in the game. Period.
And I guess if he puts up monster numbers with Peyton Manning, it somehow proves you right? That's just bizarre.

Great points.

atlantagator86 · 03-17-2013, 11:42 AM

I think Welker is a perfect example of a guy who has been VERY fortunate in his career. I don't think he's the most talented guy at his position in the NFL by any means, but he is a guy who has ended up playing in systems that fit him very well.

Had he gone to just about any other team than Denver, he probably would be an average player, but in Denver, barring injury, he's going to put up big numbers, maybe even better numbers than he put up in New England.

I think both Denver and New England are going to benefit from the roster changes.