Should UF petition the SEC for reinstatement of 1984 title?

[Wormwood56]

Originally Posted by HungaryGator

Alabama voted for us....as did Auburn and Mississippi State.

Georgia at the behest of Dooley and Tennessee at the behest of Doug Dickey were the ring leaders in pulling the crap they pulled at SEC media days in the spring of 1985. The thing is, everybody had told us that the conference would NOT try something like this. That factored into our decision to accept our penalty immediately rather than appealing which would have allowed us to play in the Sugar Bowl and meaning we were not on probation at the time thus giving the limpd*cks no excuse to play their little games. Obviously that is exactly what we should have done. We gave up the Sugar Bowl in 1984 so we could play in a bowl game in 1986..when the sanctions ensured we sucked.

Hungary, Dickey wasn't at Tennessee until 1985. It was Bob Woodruff. I thought for years it was Dickey as well.

[Wormwood56]

Originally Posted by HungaryGator

I don't want us ever breaking rules again BUT....I am more concerned with fairness or a level playing field than I am with the letter of the law. The fact is that at that time, everybody was cheating their butts off....MOST DEFINITELY including sow, and scUM who were both just mad because we could (and did) afford to outbid them for most of the top prospects. scUM was busted in 1982 and sow got a letter of reprimand with no sanctions (same as it ever was) in 1983 I believe.

In addition Yes, Tennessee was cheating as a subsequent investigation showed....but they were a sacred cow and got a slap on the wrist. As for the Leghumpers...does the name Jan Kemp ring a bell? Massive academic fraud to keep their illiterate players eligible. That had been going on for some time at UGA. Bama? Hmmm Pat Dye, Jackie Sherrill, Danny Ford, Charlie Pell...what do they all have in common? (Ronnie Cottrell was another). Speaking of Pat Dye...he was at Auburn at the time....

The cheating was simply rampant. So to say UF alone should have to give up a title it won while cheating but others should not have to give up the titles and honors they won while cheating is not fair and is not a level playing field.

Agree complete. Can't fault Gray, however, because he has been consistent about this for well over a decade (including the AOL days). I completely understand his point of view. I simply cannot reconcile that honorable viewpoint with the smug attitudes of the other schools who have been cheating for a very long time, yet continue to collect their title rings, both before AND after what happened to us.

[OaktownGator]

Originally Posted by Wormwood56

Agree complete. Can't fault Gray, however, because he has been consistent about this for well over a decade (including the AOL days). I completely understand his point of view. I simply cannot reconcile that honorable viewpoint with the smug attitudes of the other schools who have been cheating for a very long time, yet continue to collect their title rings, both before AND after what happened to us.

I am with you and Hungary on this. The hypocrisy and bias among SEC schools against UF has been an issue for a long time.

Also can't fault Gray a bit for taking the high road on what he expects of the Gators, and being consistent about it.

[The_Graygator]

I appreciate it guys. I mean, all of us, especially me, have been very harsh on FSU's cheating during the '90's so I would be a hypocrite to say we deserved something when we cheated to get it.

But I DO agree with you guys that the SEC has treated us with another set of gloves with what happened back in the '80's. I mean, we got punished, which we fully deserved to be, but other teams got a slap on the wrist for their actions.

The "SEC Good 'Ole Boy Network" in action as always. They should have been stripped of any titles too IMO.

[GatorJeff]

Thank God that titles are "vacated", rather than awarded to the second place team. If that was the case, the third place team would hire detectives to investigate the second place team, find some wrongdoing and notify the NCAA. After the 2nd place team was stripped of the title and it was awarded to the 3rd place team, the 4th place team would investigate them, etc.

[gtr2x]

Originally Posted by The_Graygator

It doesn't matter who else cheated though. Yeah, it sucks that UT voted against us to get their SEC Title that year and then got caught cheating the next year, but it's still completely irrelevant.

We cheated. We broke the rules, and don't deserve the title that year.

I sure as heck don't want a title that we cheated to get.

Well, it matters to me and I think most Gator fans from that era, especially when talking with rivals and the media that think Florida football started in the 90s. Guess you're a better man than me, Sainthood next door to the right.

What I dont get is if you're willing to accept this blatant screw job, why complain so much about officiating which is a much lesser deal. Constant complaining about the refs, while it may be true, just makes you sound like a sore loser. Every fan thinks his team gets hosed by the refs at some point.

[regator]

This is the same argument used in steroids.
Yeah it's cheating but everybody was doing it

[regator]

One of the reasons I had so much respect for Spurrier is his ethics.
He came into the SEC in a time that many programs were cheating and made UF great without cheating. I saw him throw all Americans off the team for fighting. No way most other programs would have the balls to do that
Gaffney was thrown off for stealing a wallet. The AD had to talk him into taking him back.
He also couldn't get players qualified that ended up playing for rivals.

I want that not the coaches who don't have the confidence to do it the right way

[grant1]

Originally Posted by chipleygator

I got you all beat. I bought a full case of the 1984 bottles in 1985 from the Gator Shop under the stadium. I was in school at the time. They had them on clearance for 50 cents each. Don't ask me why I bought them, I am just a collector of all things Gator.

Not sure you have me beat; I have a lot, too. Don't really know how many, but I bought a lot back then.

[The_Graygator]

Originally Posted by gtr2x

Well, it matters to me and I think most Gator fans from that era, especially when talking with rivals and the media that think Florida football started in the 90s. Guess you're a better man than me, Sainthood next door to the right.

What I dont get is if you're willing to accept this blatant screw job, why complain so much about officiating which is a much lesser deal. Constant complaining about the refs, while it may be true, just makes you sound like a sore loser. Every fan thinks his team gets hosed by the refs at some point.

My point about the refs is this... there's an obvious bias within the SEC ranks when it comes to the officials. Whether or not it's fair, if we cheated, I'm not cutting us any slack.

Where you think it may sound like a sore loser, to me, it's a demand and expectation for the highest professionalism and competence.

[tilly]

Originally Posted by PIMking

why not, half of Bama's national titles are like this

Wrong. Ours was actually earned...and real.

[HungaryGator]

Originally Posted by tilly

Wrong. Ours was actually earned...and real.

and spectacular

[StonewallJawkson]

Originally Posted by The_Graygator

We cheated, we didn't get that title, and that's how it should be. I'd rather have won it fair and square, by the rules. Just because others were cheating and got slaps on the wrist doesn't change that.

Well said. It's easy to stick to your principles when they don't hurt you. It's a lot harder when they result in a situation you don't like.

[Spurffelbow833]

Originally Posted by GatorJeff

Thank God that titles are "vacated", rather than awarded to the second place team. If that was the case, the third place team would hire detectives to investigate the second place team, find some wrongdoing and notify the NCAA. After the 2nd place team was stripped of the title and it was awarded to the 3rd place team, the 4th place team would investigate them, etc.

Vanderbilt would have played in about 42 Sugar Bowls by now.

[tebowharvin]

This would be hypocritical. I like to think our fanbase is classier

[Wormwood56]

Originally Posted by tebowharvin

This would be hypocritical. I like to think our fanbase is classier

The only problem is that if that 'classy" fanbase sneers at the 1984/1985/1990 teams for the transgressions of the boosters and head coach, they are also tarring the players with the same brush. We cheated bigtime in the early 1980s, but no payer was bought to come to Florida. And those players busted their heart to win for the Orange and Blue.

Most of us who recognize those great teams do so because of the players, not the boosters and Pell, particularly when all the other competitive teams in the South were cheating their butts off and not paying for it as we did.

Go see Wilber Marshall hobbling around on his wrecked knees and tell him that he is somehow not worthy (yes, I know, he left after the 1983 season). Ditto with Lomas Brown, Kerwin, Rickey Nattiel, John L. and the rest of these great Gators who gave their all for their alma mater.

They weren't cheaters.

[HungaryGator]

Originally Posted by Wormwood56

The only problem is that if that 'classy" fanbase sneers at the 1984/1985/1990 teams for the transgressions of the boosters and head coach, they are also tarring the players with the same brush. We cheated bigtime in the early 1980s, but no payer was bought to come to Florida. And those players busted their heart to win for the Orange and Blue.

Most of us who recognize those great teams do so because of the players, not the boosters and Pell, particularly when all the other competitive teams in the South were cheating their butts off and not paying for it as we did.

Go see Wilber Marshall hobbling around on his wrecked knees and tell him that he is somehow not worthy (yes, I know, he left after the 1983 season). Ditto with Lomas Brown, Kerwin, Rickey Nattiel, John L. and the rest of these great Gators who gave their all for their alma mater.

They weren't cheaters.

I keep coming back to....how come other programs don't have to give up and/or disclaim THEIR honors won when they were breaking rules? How come we are the only ones to be held to this standard? Does anybody say Oklahoma's various titles don't count? They've been busted at least twice as many times as we have and they did a lot more cheating than that. Southern Cal has been popped 5 times in the last 50 years and everybody knows they've cheated a lot more than that. Ohio State has been popped numerous times....yet nobody brings that up over and over again - instead all the talk is of what a traditional power they've been. scUM has been popped more than we have and sow more than twice as many times as we have despite their history being 40 years shorter than ours. Do they have to give up their various titles? Bama has been busted what is it....6? times for violations in football to our two - one of which was the utter BS claim in 1989 for which the NCAA had no proof. Everybody knows Auburn has been one of the biggest cheaters in NCAA history with at least 7 major violations in football. So do those last two have to surrender their titles and honors won also?

We won the 1984 SEC title. I will go out of my way to claim it for as long as I live.

[The_Graygator]

Originally Posted by Wormwood56

The only problem is that if that 'classy" fanbase sneers at the 1984/1985/1990 teams for the transgressions of the boosters and head coach, they are also tarring the players with the same brush. We cheated bigtime in the early 1980s, but no payer was bought to come to Florida. And those players busted their heart to win for the Orange and Blue.

Most of us who recognize those great teams do so because of the players, not the boosters and Pell, particularly when all the other competitive teams in the South were cheating their butts off and not paying for it as we did.

Go see Wilber Marshall hobbling around on his wrecked knees and tell him that he is somehow not worthy (yes, I know, he left after the 1983 season). Ditto with Lomas Brown, Kerwin, Rickey Nattiel, John L. and the rest of these great Gators who gave their all for their alma mater.

They weren't cheaters.

I will be the first to agree we got screwed in 1990. That team deserved the SEC Title because the NCAA basically couldn't even prove we broke the rules, they just accused us of it and punished us.

As for the mid - 80's, our boosters were running rampant. They paid players with illegal incentives while they were at UF (Lomas Brown was the worst case), but there was plenty of stories about how Pell told the boosters the players he wanted at UF and how they went out and illegally contacted them and probably even gave them stuff to come to UF.

All-in-all, this sad time in our program's history actually made it a lot stronger IMO.

[gtr2x]

Originally Posted by The_Graygator

All-in-all, this sad time in our program's history actually made it a lot stronger IMO.

I probably should just let this go, but am curious how you think this made the program stronger?

I certainly didnt condone Pell's cheating, but he did rejuvenate the boosters and facilities, from it's low point under Dickey, which in the long run helped the program. However, getting slammed by the NCAA back into mediocrity while our cheating rivals were taking advantage certainly did not help the program.

[wygator]

For what it's worth, Auburn listed us as 1984 SEC Champion in their 1985 game programs.