I don't know when it happened. . .

[gatorbogey]

for the coming week at the sec-t: excited to see how we do indeed fare on a 'neutral' court - that likely may be 'hostile' to us .... good prep [for team and fans] for the ncaa's.

[gatordavisl]

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

I tried to rep Davis as well, but I was not permitted to do so.

It's all good, sometimes people need to disagree.

Thanks. You're repped out from me too. Good dialogue.

[gatormann]

Wes, I enjoyed reading your comments in this thread and appreciated the case you made. I feel the same way about the perspective you have brought on other threads here.

Still, I find myself at a loss for another way to describe the failure to make a single shot on their final 11 shots.

It will be interesting to see how things go the rest of the way.

[bullish]

For you research freaks, how many times has Billy been the winning coach at Rupp as coach of the Gators. I remember white chocolate lighting them with his fearless attitude, but after that it seems we go there hoping. I wish we would build for this game every year and figure out how to win there, they can come to our house and win, but at least once a decade or so we should be able to win at Rupp. Disappointed to the max as a fan! Who puts us on Senior night at Rupp every year, not good!

[WESGATORS]

3-14 in Lexington ('98, '06, '07)
1-3 at SEC Tournament ('05)
10-7 in GAINESVILLE

Trends: 4-14 first 18 games
Trends: 10-10 last 20 games

FLORIDA's win at home snapped a 5-game losing streak to Kentucky.

Prior to Billy's arrival, FLORIDA had won 5 games in Lexington ('66, '74, '85, '88, '89)

Source: Page 130-131 Media Guide + 2 games this year

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[tebowharvin]

No such thing as "choking." No such thing as "toughness." This board rampant with catchphrases is becoming difficult to stand. It was on the road, get over it.

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by tebowharvin

No such thing as "choking." No such thing as "toughness." This board rampant with catchphrases is becoming difficult to stand. It was on the road, get over it.

I do not understand this.
Do you not think certin people respond better to pressure situations, whereas others may become nervous and tight? You really think people universally respond to pressure exactly the same?

[Jonas]

Originally Posted by tebowharvin

No such thing as "choking." No such thing as "toughness." This board rampant with catchphrases is becoming difficult to stand. It was on the road, get over it.

I normally am with you here, but it does seem like it has been a trend. We've given up leads against all the tough teams we play against on the road, and we didn't score at all in the last 7 minutes against UK, and some of those were easy lay ups. Just seems like there might be some legitimacy to use getting tight at the end of tough games.

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by Jonas

I normally am with you here, but it does seem like it has been a trend. We've given up leads against all the tough teams we play against on the road, and we didn't score at all in the last 7 minutes against UK, and some of those were easy lay ups. Just seems like there might be some legitimacy to use getting tight at the end of tough games.

Wether or not this team does, or has gotten tight in crunch time. . . isn't it irrefutable that people respond to pressures very differently?
Of course there is such thing as "choking" and mental "toughness".

[Jonas]

Originally Posted by akaGatorhoops

Wether or not this team does, or has gotten tight in crunch time. . . isn't it irrefutable that people respond to pressures very differently?
Of course there is such thing as "choking" and mental "toughness".

Some people definitely do not respond well to pressure well, but they can get better. The issue is that in sports (and basketball in particular with his variance) a player not doing well in crunch time does not necessarily mean he does not handle pressure well. So I think tebowharvin's point is that some fans just offer a lazy analysis by saying players "choke" or they aren't "tough" to explain why a loss happen, when a lot of times, the reasons are much more complicated.

For out team in particular, I think there have been enough games that you have to start wondering if we do not respond to well to pressure right now. Hopefully we get better at it.

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by Jonas

Some people definitely do not respond well to pressure well, but they can get better. The issue is that in sports (and basketball in particular with his variance) a player not doing well in crunch time does not necessarily mean he does not handle pressure well. So I think tebowharvin's point is that some fans just offer a lazy analysis by saying players "choke" or they aren't "tough" to explain why a loss happen, when a lot of times, the reasons are much more complicated.

For out team in particular, I think there have been enough games that you have to start wondering if we do not respond to well to pressure right now. Hopefully we get better at it.

agree.

[tebowharvin]

We have a very small sample size to begin with, coaches... But hey what do I know? Studies have shown that these phenomena either do not exist or are extremely unimportant considering other factors. Kenny has made many big shots in past NCAA tournaments, but I do not think he was ever clutch nor that he lost it. We lost 5 close games this year, and were randomly blown out by a terrible shooting team shooting lights out the first 8 minutes... I guess they had more toughness? All that was on the road. Whatever. We have a GREAT top team. I trust Vegas and computers over your poetic, catchphrase-laden, sensational analysis...

[gogators73]

The level of confidence they used to be at was awesome. The way they moved the ball was awesome. The way they played defense was a thing of beauty. They are still playing great defense but even that IMO hasn't been the same. Not that it is anywhere near a weakness but there is just something off as a whole about this team right now.

I hope a neutral court and bit of a rhythm with 3 games in a row (if we are winning) cures it.

[supagator]

Why does boynton always take the .last shot?

[Gatuar]

I like our chances on a true neutral court and think we'll be surprised how well we play

Other teams won't get home cooking and feed off frenzied crowd

Kansas City against KSU wasn't a "neutral court"

[regurgigator]

Originally Posted by Jonas

Some people definitely do not respond well to pressure well, but they can get better. The issue is that in sports (and basketball in particular with his variance) a player not doing well in crunch time does not necessarily mean he does not handle pressure well. So I think tebowharvin's point is that some fans just offer a lazy analysis by saying players "choke" or they aren't "tough" to explain why a loss happen, when a lot of times, the reasons are much more complicated.

For out team in particular, I think there have been enough games that you have to start wondering if we do not respond to well to pressure right now. Hopefully we get better at it.

I agree too.

Some of you talk about seeing similarities in all of our close losses, but to me they've all been quite different.

This last game against UK, I was getting very angry when the score was 57-50 and 57-51, and we had several very poor offensive possessions in a row when we could have been adding to the lead (we got some stops also). To me, those were our worst possessions and they came at a time when pressure shouldn't have been much of a factor since we were ahead and there were still 5 to 7 minutes left in the game.

I thought we actually stabilized a bit down the stretch to get a handful of good looks. We just missed them all. And, while I think Young may have "short-armed" a couple, I think he had been "sped up" by having his shot blocked a couple of times earlier, which is not something that happens to him very often. So, my sense was that Young's misses were due to him getting a little antsy about getting his shot stuffed and not about the pressure of the moment in a tight game. But, who knows?

If I thought we were losing every close game in a similar manner, I might be more concerned also. But, I don't, and therefore, I'm not

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by tebowharvin

We have a very small sample size to begin with, coaches... But hey what do I know? Studies have shown that these phenomena either do not exist or are extremely unimportant considering other factors. Kenny has made many big shots in past NCAA tournaments, but I do not think he was ever clutch nor that he lost it. We lost 5 close games this year, and were randomly blown out by a terrible shooting team shooting lights out the first 8 minutes... I guess they had more toughness? All that was on the road. Whatever. We have a GREAT top team. I trust Vegas and computers over your poetic, catchphrase-laden, sensational analysis...

We have an infinite sample size as it realtes to the existance of "choking" and "toughness". So, again I ask you --- are you suggesting peoples' response to strressful situations is universally identical, or do some people perform better and others worse when faced with stress?
I look forward to your answer.
Fwiw, we share similar optimism for this team. I just dispute your notion that "choking" or "toughness" does not exist.
As I said in the thread... I do not consider this a team of "chokers", but I can not deny that it has played tight in the waning moments of recent road games. When a team plays differently in the critical moments and in hostile enviroments--- I have to acknoweldge that it is not handleling those moments well. I do not think the team suddenly lost the ability to play the game. Instead, the moment of the situation is impacting its play.
You can dispute this all you wish, and saracastically refer to posters as coach's"--- but guess what?? Our actual coach acknowledged it. These are comments following a win over bama, in which Donovan suggested that the significance of the game and the 'moment' was not handeled well by his team.

"I thought the moment of the game.... I thought our guys allowed the moment to drain them, to get distracted. And we talked about it and maybe I need to do a better job as a coach to get them more prepared for that."
"Sometimes the moment can be really exhausting".
"The only thing I can put my finger on---- is the moment of something big."

[SmootyGator]

Originally Posted by akaGatorhoops

We have an infinite sample size as it realtes to the existance of "choking" and "toughness". So, again I ask you --- are you suggesting peoples' response to strressful situations is universally identical, or do some people perform better and others wrose when faced with stress?
I look forward to your answer.
Fwiw, we share similar optimism for this team. I just dispute your notion that "choking" or "toughness" does not exist.
As I said in the thread... I do not consider this a team of "chokers", but I can not deny that it has played tight in the waning moments of recent road games. When a team plays differently in the critical moments and in hostile enviroments--- I have to acknoweldge that it is not handleling those moments well. I do not think the team suddenly lost the ability to play the game. Instead, the moment of the situation is impacting its play.
You can dispute this all you wish, and saracastically refer to posters as coach's"--- but guess what?? Our actual coach acknowledged it. These are comments following a win over bama, in which Donovan suggested that the significance of the game and the 'moment' was not handeled well by his team.

"I thought the moment of the game.... I thought our guys allowed the moment to drain them, to get distracted. And we talked about it and maybe I need to do a better job as a coach to get them more prepared for that."
"Sometimes the moment can be really exhausting".
"The only thing I can put my finger on---- is the moment of something big."

I posted this in another thread, but I'll post it here too.

I thought our D played really great the last 8 minutes of the UK game. We gave up 11 points in 8 minutes and that was with our offense giving up a bunch of turnovers. I would actually say that our Defense stepped up despite the big time pressure. Does anyone disagree with this? If not, how could it be that we "choked" on offense and stepped up on defense?

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by SmootyGator

I posted this in another thread, but I'll post it here too.

I thought our D played really great the last 8 minutes of the UK game. We gave up 11 points in 8 minutes and that was with our offense giving up a bunch of turnovers. I would actually say that our Defense stepped up despite the big time pressure. Does anyone disagree with this? If not, how could it be that we "choked" on offense and stepped up on defense?

I think that is a good point.
Devil's advocate would suggest that nerves and tighhness may manifest moreso on the offensive end, whereas as defense may be more effort driven.
If I had to use an example. . . if equally impacted by nerves, a football player may have an easier time making a tackle versus a kicker walking up and hitting the game winnner.
I do not pretend to have an explanation for it.
But I think we all saw the same thing.... to say we were offensively inept in those final minutes would be a raving compliment. So, it begs the question as to "why". Perhaps UK stepped and played better defense. Though that would not account for the careless turnovers or easy misses. Perhaps we simply missed shots and had an unfortunate streak that came at the worst time. Or perhaps, we were rattled by the "moment" and its showed on how we shot the ball and made decisions.
I really dont know.
But I think it is foolish to suggest that stress and pressure have no impact on sports and that "choking" or "toughness" do not exist.

[SmootyGator]

Originally Posted by akaGatorhoops

I think that is a good point.
Devil's advocate would suggest that nerves and tighhness may manifest moreso on the offensive end, whereas as defense may be more effort driven.
If I had to use an example. . . if equally impacted by nerves, a football player may have an easier time making a tackle versus a kicker walking up and hitting the game winnner.
I do not pretend to have an explanation for it.
But I think we all saw the same thing.... to say we were offensively inept in those final minutes would be a raving compliment. So, it begs the question as to "why". Perhaps UK stepped and played better defense. Though that would not account for the careless turnovers or easy misses. Perhaps we simply missed shots and had an unfortunate streak that came at the worst time. Or perhaps, we were rattled by the "moment" and its showed on how we shot the ball and made decisions.
I really dont know.
But I think it is foolish to suggest that stress and pressure have no impact on sports and that "choking" or "toughness" do not exist.

Yes, I wish I could explain it too... It is very frustrating to lose any type of game.

I don't discount "choking" or "toughness"... I just think that people make them out to be WAY bigger of a deal than they actually are.