Damn hippies!

[Minister_of_Information]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

Yeah, the Flintstones proved definitatively that man and dinosaur coexisted. I didnt need some fancy "science" book to tell me that.

Yabba dabba do!

[wgbgator]

You know who else tried to stop bootlegging, wife-beating, etc? People who didnt dress in sheets and commit acts of racial terrorism. People belonging to the WCTU, the Anti-Saloon league, etc. Where's their parade?

[Minister_of_Information]

Would you consider the Klan a reactionary movement, or a terrorist organization? That seems to be the distinction here. Perhaps there was a Klan-within-the-Klan, sort of like an AQ within the Islamic fundamentalist movement.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

Would you consider the Klan a reactionary movement, or a terrorist organization? That seems to be the distinction here. Perhaps there was a Klan-within-the-Klan, sort of like an AQ within the Islamic fundamentalist movement.

Probably a fair assessment. I'm sure the same applied to the Black Panthers et al.

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

Would you consider the Klan a reactionary movement, or a terrorist organization? That seems to be the distinction here. Perhaps there was a Klan-within-the-Klan, sort of like an AQ within the Islamic fundamentalist movement.

I think the biggest mistake people make about the Klan is that it is or was a cohesive national organization. While there were national-level Klan organizations with funds, the top-down coordination was really lacking or non-existent. Most of the national organizations were successfuly infiltrated, destroyed or sued into dissolution by the mid 20th century. Really, these were locally acting groups with a shared ideology, but with different tactics and goals. Some groups were probably closer to what the text in the OP describe, some were more like terrorist cells. By the mid 20th century, the White Citizens Councils had taken precedent for engaging in most of the "respectable" functions of the KKK, so they became more of a vigilante/terror organization during the Civil Rights era.

[Minister_of_Information]

The interesting thing is that it is possible to divorce the social concerns -- some of which may be legitimate -- from the terrorist ideologies and tactics in each of these movements / organizations. AQ for instance has legitimate worries about the insidious cultural destruction and nihilistic materialism that accompanies Westernization, but its antidote is the application of an evil and chauvinistic ideology. Not so different than the Klan.

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

The interesting thing is that it is possible to divorce the social concerns -- some of which may be legitimate -- from the terrorist ideologies and tactics in each of these movements / organizations. AQ for instance has legitimate worries about the insidious cultural destruction and nihilistic materialism that accompanies Westernization, but its antidote is the application of an evil and chauvinistic ideology. Not so different than the Klan.

Is this "marketing" or evidence of an actual concern, but with a different strategy of obtaining results? Booze and morality was a concern shared by a lot of people in the Progressive era, which was also the Klan's heyday. My guess is sticking up for "morality" is a better recruiting tool than terrorizing black folks, even among the most vile of racists.

[Minister_of_Information]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

Is this "marketing" or evidence of an actual concern, but with a different strategy of obtaining results? Booze and morality was a concern shared by a lot of people in the Progressive era, which was also the Klan's heyday. My guess is sticking up for "morality" is a better recruiting tool than terrorizing black folks, even among the most vile of racists.

I think the upsetting of any social order by conquest -- even one based on white supremacy -- is bound to have negative aspects, both perceived and actual. Of course, the less sympathetic simply say that now the shoe is on the other foot, but that is obviously a rationalization as well. No human is ever completely free of either light or shadow, though it is certainly simpler to see them that way. I think that it is probable that at least some of the activity of the postwar Klan was motivated by the perceived need, either real or hysterical or most probably both, for self defense. Later iterations of Klan activity seem to have been a nexus of reactionary anticommunism and the ideology of white supremacy.

[wgbgator]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

I think the upsetting of any social order by conquest -- even one based on white supremacy -- is bound to have negative aspects, both perceived and actual. Of course, the less sympathetic simply say that now the shoe is on the other foot, but that is obviously a rationalization as well. No human is ever completely free of either light or shadow, though it is certainly simpler to see them that way. I think that it is probable that at least some of the activity of the postwar Klan was motivated by the perceived need, either real or hysterical or most probably both, for self defense. Later iterations of Klan activity seem to have been a nexus of reactionary anticommunism and the ideology of white supremacy.

Historically, Klan activity has always spiked whenever their was unease or disruption in the social order. So, spikes in Klan activity occured during Reconstruction up to Plessy, after WWI, and then in the wake of WWII and the Civil Rights era beginging w/ Brown. In the periods in between the spikes (like the 30s), the Klan was pretty moribund. It always comes back to life whenever threats to the social order emerge. Perhaps it is at its heart, reactionary, to go back to your orginal question.

[brainstorm]

" It's like what Lenin said... you look for the person who will benefit, and, uh, uh..."

[wgbgator]

I am the Walrus

[oragator1]

Many moons ago the Arab world was considered the hub of science and development. Now they are looked down on as living in the middle ages. What changed is that they decided to put religion ahead of science and discovery.
One can only hope that people like Bob Jones and others like him aren't allowed to make the same thing happen here.

[Minister_of_Information]

Nor the progressives.

[rivergator]

Originally Posted by oragator1

Many moons ago the Arab world was considered the hub of science and development. Now they are looked down on as living in the middle ages. What changed is that they decided to put religion ahead of science and discovery.
One can only hope that people like Bob Jones and others like him aren't allowed to make the same thing happen here.

Bob Jones has been dead awhile, but his university and his legacy live on. It is amazing that stuff shows up in science books.

[OaktownGator]

Originally Posted by wgbgator

Yeah, the Flintstones proved definitatively that man and dinosaur coexisted. I didnt need some fancy "science" book to tell me that.

This is the kind of clear headed thinking this country needs more of.

[vangator1]

Robert Byrd, Democrat senator from WV is the only KKK member I can think of right now.

[RealGatorFan]

That dinosaurs and man coexisted is based in some part to a set of prints where large dinosaurs and human footprints were found side-by-side. Problem is we don't know if those are of man (although they do look like human footprints made by large humans). If so, we have never found human fossils among dino fossils. Could it be man's bones didn't hold up very well? I always loved ready crap like this. If only we had a time machine. Actually, that's one device mankind never needs to invent.

[jdrgator]

Originally Posted by vangator1

Robert Byrd, Democrat senator from WV is the only KKK member I can think of right now.

Robert Byrd is dead.