CPR controversy

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by 96Gatorcise

you no longer need to check.

If person appears unconscious call 911 and begin compressions.

The rationale is get blood moving as quickly as possible. If the person is still breathing they will let you know with a sound or movement and you can stop.

That's what I got in my certification course. No time to check and see if they're dead.

Another thing I learned in my course: they're probably dead anyway. CPR resuscitation rates are truly abysmal.

[Spurffelbow833]

Originally Posted by channingcrowderhungry

That's what I was going to say. There are radio ads now discussing giving chest compressions only.

Coincidentally I heard a few years back the correct timing for chest compressions is to the beat of the song "staying alive"

Or "Another One Bites the Dust."

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by Spurffelbow833

Or "Another One Bites the Dust."

... which is probably in better keeping with the victims odds. Seriously, we were told not to expect to revive a victim and thus not to be squeamish about the sounds of tearing rib cartilage from the compressions.

[MichiGator2002]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

... which is probably in better keeping with the victims odds. Seriously, we were told not to expect to revive a victim and thus not to be squeamish about the sounds of tearing rib cartilage from the compressions.

Well, they are dead. But the damage you can inflict doing CPR makes me cringe at just doing it immediately to an unconscious victim who may be circulating. Do they even want you to Look, Listen, and Feel anymore?

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by MichiGator2002

Well, they are dead. But the damage you can inflict doing CPR makes me cringe at just doing it immediately to an unconscious victim who may be circulating. Do they even want you to Look, Listen, and Feel anymore?

That's not what we were told, presumably because it is nigh unto impossible to stand over a person and determine, without the aid of diagnostic equipment, if they're dead.

It was emphasized that, in the case of cardiac arrest, they were almost certainly going to die anyway, so we could hardly harm them further. We were told that even in cases where victims were resuscitated in a clinical setting that their odds of ever walking out of the hospital were exceedingly slim.

[MichiGator2002]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

That's not what we were told, presumably because it is nigh unto impossible to stand over a person and determine, without the aid of diagnostic equipment, if they're dead.

Back in the day, the first step approaching an unconscious victim is to Look, Listen, and Feel for breathing. A breathing victim as an open airway, has circulation. They don't want people to do this anymore?

EDIT: when I say dead, I mean that once you have established someone needed CPR, they are dead on paper anyway. CPR is to bring 'em back.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by MichiGator2002

Back in the day, the first step approaching an unconscious victim is to Look, Listen, and Feel for breathing. A breathing victim as an open airway, has circulation. They don't want people to do this anymore?

EDIT: when I say dead, I mean that once you have established someone needed CPR, they are dead on paper anyway. CPR is to bring 'em back.

Check for breathing is what I assumed going in. But they stressed over and again not to bother with that. It was more like "Do they look like they might be dead ?" I think I remember them telling us to try to speak to the victim so as to illicit a response ... then go for broke (no pun intended).

[96Gatorcise]

Originally Posted by MichiGator2002

Back in the day, the first step approaching an unconscious victim is to Look, Listen, and Feel for breathing. A breathing victim as an open airway, has circulation. They don't want people to do this anymore?

EDIT: when I say dead, I mean that once you have established someone needed CPR, they are dead on paper anyway. CPR is to bring 'em back.

no more look listen and feel.

They want you on the chest and doing compressions. The blood supply has 6-10 minutes worth of O2, it needs the pumping of the heart to get it to the brain.

AVG response time for EMS is 7 min, so your job is to keep the blood pumping for that amount of time or until EMS/FD shows up with advanced equipment.

If you have an AED use it!

The most important thing is to be calm and do compression until AED or FD is available

or you physically cannot continue.


as Dream mentioned even with CPR your chances are slim... I believe it is something like 5% survival rate

Also if you are not breaking ribs you are not pushing hard enough....

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by 96Gatorcise

no more look listen and feel.

They want you on the chest and doing compressions. The blood supply has 6-10 minutes worth of O2, it needs the pumping of the heart to get it to the brain.

AVG response time for EMS is 7 min, so your job is to keep the blood pumping for that amount of time or until EMS/FD shows up with advanced equipment.

If you have an AED use it!

The most important thing is to be calm and do compression until AED or FD is available

or you physically cannot continue.


as Dream mentioned even with CPR your chances are slim... I believe it is something like 5% survival rate

Also if you are not breaking ribs you are not pushing hard enough....

It's actually fairly sobering. You're almost hoping for a miracle.

[96Gatorcise]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

It's actually fairly sobering. You're almost hoping for a miracle.

correct!

My instructor did say that with an AED survival rates increase significantly. I cant remember the exact number but 50% comes to mind.

[MichiGator2002]

Originally Posted by 96Gatorcise

no more look listen and feel.

They want you on the chest and doing compressions. The blood supply has 6-10 minutes worth of O2, it needs the pumping of the heart to get it to the brain.

AVG response time for EMS is 7 min, so your job is to keep the blood pumping for that amount of time or until EMS/FD shows up with advanced equipment.

If you have an AED use it!

The most important thing is to be calm and do compression until AED or FD is available

or you physically cannot continue.

as Dream mentioned even with CPR your chances are slim... I believe it is something like 5% survival rate

Also if you are not breaking ribs you are not pushing hard enough....

Call me cynical, and I would have the debate with a CPR/PR instructor, but it feels like, as I process this, that the change has been made on the determination that the... seconds, really, to run through those first steps... have less to do with the medicine and more with ratcheted down expectations for what people will be able to compentently handle.

[Dreamliner]

That could very well be the case. And thought the odds with AED greatly increase, what are the odds you're going to have access to one ?

[96Gatorcise]

Originally Posted by MichiGator2002

Call me cynical, and I would have the debate with a CPR/PR instructor, but it feels like, as I process this, that the change has been made on the determination that the... seconds, really, to run through those first steps... have less to do with the medicine and more with ratcheted down expectations for what people will be able to compentently handle.

I agree with you.

Its not what they(us) can handle, it is more what a person is willing to do.

I believe it was said earlier, I cardiac event is a nasty thing. There is blood, puke and other things going on.

Telling and teaching someone that all they have to do is chest pump, you are more likely to get compliance.

As my instructor also pointed out, due to the excited situation, when you give rescue breaths all you are doing is filling the stomach with air because most everyone blows to hard.

[Dreamliner]

In the long run it's just better to be fat.

*runs away*

[96Gatorcise]

from a personal stand point, unless I know you and know you very well, you are not getting rescue breaths from me even if I had a barrier device available.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by 96Gatorcise

from a personal stand point, unless I know you and know you very well, you are not getting rescue breaths from me even if I had a barrier device available.

Ditto. Just not worth it.

[cocodrilo]

Before giving breaths to a really good-looking gal, you should first ask someone how long she's been dead.