Paying my taxes.....

[outbackjack]

OK. I'm an American, educated, 40 years old, steady work, married.....middle class as they come.

This year we've held a few mutual funds, put some away when we have extra, made a little money, a few times we've sold some funds to pay some credit card bills. This would be 4 or 5 cash outs that would total less than 10,000 combined.

NOTHING FANCY AT ALL.

So last night I sit down to do my taxes. I have all of my required forms, I think. No way to really know.

It begins easily enough on Turbo Tax.

Then I hit the midpoint, and it all falls apart.

I have to begin to enter all data from my "investments". Forms don't match with the boxes it says they should. Or I've been sent wrong forms. One line asks for the cost basis, and the words "cost basis" aren't listed ANYWHERE on the form I'm supposed to use. I receive a form that states "foreign tax paid" and it's literally 15 dollars and some change. Says on the top, This is an important tax document.

Can I find the place to enter it correctly? Of course not.

Dates were completely blank on some forms sent to me, asking about dates purchased. When I call the company that sent me the form, I'm assured it's blank becasue I don't need it. Yet Turbo won't go further because a date isn't entered.

So I finally gave up, deleted everything, and am just handing it over to an accountant like a 3 year old handing a big book to his parents for them to read to him.

I have never felt more helpless.

It seems to me that there should be a tax system that's about 1,000,000 times more user friendly. I'm more than happy to pay my fair share, but the feeling of not knowing what is fair is the worst.

And I know there are people left and right who've probably figured out how to beat the system. I can only imagine the employees that work in the IRS, creating such a fun tax system.

All past years I've done it, but always clicked "complete" yet never really felt I understood if it was correct or not. I would just send it to be done.

Pity party please.

Thank you.

[ufhomerj31]

Until the taxes are simplified, do your investments in a Roth accounts to avoid the headaches.
Oh and make sure you document everything, don't depend on the companies to do it for you.

[G8trGr8t]

Turbotax imports all my data directly from fidelity so I can't screw it up but I agree we need to completely scrap the whole tax code and go to a simple sales tax.

[channingcrowderhungry]

If you think personal is bad, business taxes are stupidly complicated. The entire system is symbolic of the drawbacks to large government programs.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

I had an accountant until two years ago when I gave it a go (at the time was part owner in two businesses, have a bunch of varied investments).

It took almost a full Saturday and a lot of printing, but it wasn't that big of a deal. I did it again last year and finished it in about 4 hours.

I wouldn't rely on Turbo Tax, either. The documents you need are readily available at the IRS web site and the whole process is much easier if you just read the forms instead of relying on an automated conduit to attempt to translate things that don't need translating to the dumbest possible customer (as I recall, TT tries to make things as simple as possible but actually sucks at getting your returns right).

[Gatorrick22]

Originally Posted by outbackjack

OK. I'm an American, educated, 40 years old, steady work, married.....middle class as they come.

This year we've held a few mutual funds, put some away when we have extra, made a little money, a few times we've sold some funds to pay some credit card bills. This would be 4 or 5 cash outs that would total less than 10,000 combined.

NOTHING FANCY AT ALL.

So last night I sit down to do my taxes. I have all of my required forms, I think. No way to really know.

It begins easily enough on Turbo Tax.

Then I hit the midpoint, and it all falls apart.

I have to begin to enter all data from my "investments". Forms don't match with the boxes it says they should. Or I've been sent wrong forms. One line asks for the cost basis, and the words "cost basis" aren't listed ANYWHERE on the form I'm supposed to use. I receive a form that states "foreign tax paid" and it's literally 15 dollars and some change. Says on the top, This is an important tax document.

Can I find the place to enter it correctly? Of course not.

Dates were completely blank on some forms sent to me, asking about dates purchased. When I call the company that sent me the form, I'm assured it's blank becasue I don't need it. Yet Turbo won't go further because a date isn't entered.

So I finally gave up, deleted everything, and am just handing it over to an accountant like a 3 year old handing a big book to his parents for them to read to him.

I have never felt more helpless.

It seems to me that there should be a tax system that's about 1,000,000 times more user friendly. I'm more than happy to pay my fair share, but the feeling of not knowing what is fair is the worst.

And I know there are people left and right who've probably figured out how to beat the system. I can only imagine the employees that work in the IRS, creating such a fun tax system.

All past years I've done it, but always clicked "complete" yet never really felt I understood if it was correct or not. I would just send it to be done.

Pity party please.

Thank you.

That's what a lot of people are going through. And "We The People" might have already lost the fight for freedom when the general public starts using false phrases, made-up by the Marxists like - "Fair Share"....... my a$$.

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

I had an accountant until two years ago when I gave it a go (at the time was part owner in two businesses, have a bunch of varied investments).

It took almost a full Saturday and a lot of printing, but it wasn't that big of a deal. I did it again last year and finished it in about 4 hours.

I wouldn't rely on Turbo Tax, either. The documents you need are readily available at the IRS web site and the whole process is much easier if you just read the forms instead of relying on an automated conduit to attempt to translate things that don't need translating to the dumbest possible customer (as I recall, TT tries to make things as simple as possible but actually sucks at getting your returns right).

Curious obob on what you would do if audited? I know the odds are not high but would you go at it by yourself or seek council. The main reason I use our accountant is not only for a backup check but to have an expert already familiar with our situation.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by QGator2414

Curious obob on what you would do if audited? I know the odds are not high but would you go at it by yourself or seek council. The main reason I use our accountant is not only for a backup check but to have an expert already familiar with our situation.

I'm not particularly worried about it. I have everything documented. But yeah, it would make sense to have council either way.

[RealGatorFan]

Originally Posted by channingcrowderhungry

If you think personal is bad, business taxes are stupidly complicated. The entire system is symbolic of the drawbacks to large government programs.

Business taxes are impossible to do alone unless you have a one or 2 person operation. I'm not bashing just federal taxes either - local taxes are every bit as bad, maybe worse. My wife found out that the city of Pelham wants her to pay more taxes since they base everything off of total sales, not net income. There goes her measily $15K salary. Now she is the lowest paid employee again.

If not for my wife, I'd already move to Chile or Ecuador. The US is a lost cause. I have several associates who moved their families to Chile and in 6 weeks have already started new businesses with a tax code that is 15 pages in length. Even better, Chile has no debt. Envious I am.

[gator7_5]

Before I owned properties and a business, I did it myself. Now, I document everything clearly, keep good files, and hire a professional.

It was only about 2 g's last year in fees, but he saved me way more.

The important thing is to hire a good accountant. Like any profession, there are good ones and bad ones. My first one was with a large firm and was worthless. The one I have now is like night and day. He's a badass.

[G8trGr8t]

I believe I read that the entire German tax code is 250 pages.

[RayGator]

Originally Posted by G8trGr8t

I believe I read that the entire German tax code is 250 pages.

Correct.

It's ridiculous that our tax code is comprised of thousands of pages. It should be simple enough that most Americans could do their own tax return and not have to rely on professional tax people to assist them. A flat tax would be a good start in that direction.

[wygator]

Over this past weekend, our friendly federal government released 700 more pages of regulations for Obamacare

[QGator2414]

Originally Posted by gator7_5

Before I owned properties and a business, I did it myself. Now, I document everything clearly, keep good files, and hire a professional.

It was only about 2 g's last year in fees, but he saved me way more.

The important thing is to hire a good accountant. Like any profession, there are good ones and bad ones. My first one was with a large firm and was worthless. The one I have now is like night and day. He's a badass.

+1

[gatordowneast]

Who has an invested interest in keep the tax code complex? Of course your first guess would be accountants and tax lawyers. Who else? Think about it?

[G8trGr8t]

IRS

[gatordowneast]

Originally Posted by G8trGr8t

IRS

Yes, and who else? If taxpayers had to physically write a check to the IRS each pay period covering their ss, med, fed taxes, state taxes, local taxes, what would happen?