Diabetes Weight-Loss Study Ends Early With Surprising Result

[Dreamliner]

Normal weight diabetics twice the mortality risk as obese diabetics:

http://vitals.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...live-the-trim?

And some of you still want diabetics to lose weight. Unbelievable. Just un-fricking-believable.

[malligator]

That study finds twice the mortality if you're normal weight at diagnosis. Losing weight post-diagnosis is beneficial.

Originally Posted by Dr. Carnethon

"Overweight and obesity confers certain protective effects in end-stage renal disease and heart failure. It's called the obesity paradox," Carnethon explained. She added, however, that being overweight or obese is far more harmful than protective overall.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

In addition to failing at science, you're also failing at math, dream.

1300% more likely to be diabetic against 47% less likely to die if diabetic = obesity being more dangerous.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by malligator

That study finds twice the mortality if you're normal weight at diagnosis. Losing weight post-diagnosis is beneficial.

Correct, twice as likely to die prematurely if you're normal rate. So, we're back to losing weight making zero sense, for multiple reasons.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

In addition to failing at science, you're also failing at math, dream.

1300% more likely to be diabetic against 47% less likely to die if diabetic = obesity being more dangerous.

And since there is no credible evidence that obesity causes diabetes, and since fats diabetics fare better than thin diabetics ... was there a point in there somewhere ?

[malligator]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

Correct, twice as likely to die prematurely if you're normal rate. So, we're back to losing weight making zero sense, for multiple reasons.

That's not what the article says, but whatever...

[bakaduin]

Dream......

Seriously....

From the very first link you posted to start this thread.

Although the intervention did not reduce cardiovascular events, Look AHEAD has shown other important health benefits of the lifestyle intervention, including decreasing sleep apnea, reducing the need for diabetes medications, helping to maintain physical mobility, and improving quality of life.

But sure obesity does not impact life negatively and losing weight has no positive effect.....

I am going to submit to you a study that in reality puts this obesity thing in black and white. I am submitting it for two reason, one I am a vet so it is no doubt familiar to me, but two because humans are obviously a poor model for this sort of study. You can't put a human in confinement from birth to death to measure longevity but you can for a dog.

http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs...rnalCode=javma

Two groups of dogs, 48 dogs total, kept from birth to death. One group fed just 25% more than the other for life. Which group do you think lived longer? Which group do you think was hit with disease quicker?

Dogs are not humans obviously but if you could ethically run the same exact study with humans do you honestly think you wouldn't get similar results? OBESITY IS BAD.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

And since there is no credible evidence that obesity causes diabetes

There is so much evidence that diabetes is significantly higher in the obese. I've posted it. Can you not read it or can you not understand it?

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by malligator

That's not what the article says, but whatever...

He's pretty good at drawing the opposite conclusions as the studies he cites.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by malligator

That's not what the article says, but whatever...

I'm multi-tasking. I'm reporting the scientific findings and disparaging armchair medical advice at the same time.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

He's pretty good at drawing the opposite conclusions as the studies he cites.

What, like reporting the study's findings that fat diabetics outlive thin diabetics ?

Nice catch, Einstein!

[bakaduin]

Come on Dream I am still waiting for your retort to my above post.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by bakaduin

Come on Dream I am still waiting for your retort to my above post.

Sorry I missed it. My first point would be that even if weight-loss does help ... the vast majority of people cannot maintain weight-loss. Seriously, there is perhaps no better attested fact in the literature.

And the second point would be that even if people could maintain weight-loss, there is no tenable link between weight-control and remission of Type II diabetes.

Finally, why are we imploring diabetics to accomplish the highly improbable, i.e., maintaining weight-loss, when we know that diabetics can very often control their blood sugar through weight-neutral strategies such as intuitive eating and exercise ?

[Juggernautz]

~

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

What, like reporting the study's findings that fat diabetics outlive thin diabetics ?

Nice catch, Einstein!

Failing at math again, dream.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

Failing at math again, dream.

You're clearly running out of steam. This is because you know very well that since obesity has not been shown to cause the diseases associated with obesity, that the 'health risks' you continually harp on amount to a red-herring.

[MeyerIsBack]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

You're clearly running out of steam. This is because you know very well that since obesity has not been shown to cause the diseases associated with obesity, that the 'health risks' you continually harp on amount to a red-herring.

http://health.usnews.com/health-news...-heart-disease

"By doing epidemiological studies combined with genetic analysis, we have been able to show in a group of nearly 76,000 persons that a high BMI is enough in itself to damage the heart," Borge Nordestgaard, chief physician at Copenhagen University Hospital, said in a university news release.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by MeyerIsBack

http://health.usnews.com/health-news...-heart-disease

That's what you get with epidemiological studies, correlations. Ask orangeblueorangeblue what he thinks about correlations.

Does it really matter how your numbers measure up ?

http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/...r-numbers.html

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

You're clearly running out of steam.

I really don't need steam, the notion that obesity leads to a higher rate of mortality is almost universally accepted.

You continue to fail to understand what you're reading. Which would be fine, but you're going to give some obese person some awful, awful advice.

[MeyerIsBack]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

That's what you get with epidemiological studies, correlations. Ask orangeblueorangeblue what he thinks about correlations.

Does it really matter how your numbers measure up ?

http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/...r-numbers.html

Here is another study based on military applications in Sweden.

Making a startling comparison that likens obesity's risks to those of smoking, a large European study spanning decades has found that young men who were overweight at age 18 were as likely to die by age 60 as were light smokers, while obese teens were, like heavy smokers, at double the risk of dying early.

While obesity is linked to a slew of health problems, the new findings fly in the face of numerous recent studies showing that people who are merely overweight may not be at higher risk of premature death than those of normal weight.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/03/he....20568470.html