When was the last time our starting point guard averaged less tnan 10pts/game

[chitowngator]

Jham was my first thought too.

Wasn't Jai Lucas, who averaged 8.5 ppg, the PG in 07-08? Calathes played more of the 3 with Lucas and Hodge in the lineup. Even though 07-08 won 24 games, it's probably not a good comparison to this year's team...

I'm not concerned with Wilbekin's ppg, but one of the posters mentioned his FT percentage. That is a bigger concern, because when we're in a close game we want a primary ball handler to shoot a high percentage from the line. Walker and Green got a lot of their points at the FT line late in the game.

[grant1]

A much bigger concern is that our starting shooting guard is making only 31% of his 3s.

[jmoliver]

Please factor in what the opposing PG is averaging against Scotty before you compare his production to Cathalis or Walker. Green is an unfair comparission until Scotty has three or four NBA players around him. We may only have one NBA quality player on the roster.

[patsyruth2008]

Originally Posted by NorthCaptivaGator

I know Scotty has a great assist to turnover ratio, he has him been averaging about three rebounds per game and he plays amazing defense, but, our starting point guard needs to average more than nine points per game in this offense. He needs to score, especially when our other guys are not hitting their shots, he needs to be more assertive once the ball crosses half court and when they switch on screens he needs to beat the bigger guy guarding him to the rim and get to the line, That is all

Because the point guard's primary responsbility is to facilitate the offense and get his teammates invovled, it is not about scoring points. And if you honestly believe that Scottie's defense does not make up 3-4 points per game from the three players you have listed for comparsion then there is no way to change your mind.

North;

I usually really enjoy your posts, but for the last couple of weeks you have added little subtle comments on threads like "this is what concerned me about Scottie running the offense" or "this is what I worried about when Scottie became our PG". Considering you are one of the most adamant posters against MadGator and Insti whenever they post something negative about Erving Walker, this is coming off as pretty hypocritcal in my mind.

I apologize because I know my "post count" is not high, and these comments will cause problems but I felt they needed to be said.

[NorthCaptivaGator]

Originally Posted by patsyruth2008

Because the point guard's primary responsbility is to facilitate the offense and get his teammates invovled, it is not about scoring points. And if you honestly believe that Scottie's defense does not make up 3-4 points per game from the three players you have listed for comparsion then there is no way to change your mind.

North;

I usually really enjoy your posts, but for the last couple of weeks you have added little subtle comments on threads like "this is what concerned me about Scottie running the offense" or "this is what I worried about when Scottie became our PG". Considering you are one of the most adamant posters against MadGator and Insti whenever they post something negative about Erving Walker, this is coming off as pretty hypocritcal in my mind.

I apologize because I know my "post count" is not high, and these comments will cause problems but I felt they needed to be said.

No worries, I am just posting my legitimate concerns and when those concerns become apparent in the context of a game I comment on it, there is nothing hypocritical about that.

I never argued with Mad or Insti when they discussed Walker's shortcomings as a player, there is no doubt he had them, what got me riled about those two was when they would say things like Walker is zero sum, a bad teammate, or a "me first guy" who cared more about stats than winning, they attacked his character and it pissed me off.

I am a big Wilbekin fan, I love his defense and he has really improved his ball handling. My biggest concern last year was that the offense became stagnant with Walker on the bench and Scotty running the point. That is no longer the case, he has improved that part of his game as well. My concern with his lack of scoring is legit in comparison with prior point guards in THIS offense. He gets plenty of open looks and needs to stop deferring so much, especially when the defense is switching like Arky and UT were, if he doesn't make the defense pay for switching a Big to guard him then it makes it tougher on the rest of the team to get looks, plain and simple. Historically Billy's point guards have been 12 pt/game or better scorers, I thought the comparison was worthy of discussion.

[GatorsGators]

Originally Posted by NorthCaptivaGator

No worries, I am just posting my legitimate concerns and when those concerns become apparent in the context of a game I comment on it, there is nothing hypocritical about that.

I never argued with Mad or Insti when they discussed Walker's shortcomings as a player, there is no doubt he had them, what got me riled about those two was when they would say things like Walker is zero sum, a bad teammate, or a "me first guy" who cared more about stats than winning, they attacked his character and it pissed me off.

I am a big Wilbekin fan, I love his defense and he has really improved his ball handling. My biggest concern last year was that the offense became stagnant with Walker on the bench and Scotty running the point. That is no longer the case, he has improved that part of his game as well. My concern with his lack of scoring is legit in comparison with prior point guards in THIS offense. He gets plenty of open looks and needs to stop deferring so much, especially when the defense is switching like Arky and UT were, if he doesn't make the defense pay for switching a Big to guard him then it makes it tougher on the rest of the team to get looks, plain and simple. Historically Billy's point guards have been 12 pt/game or better scorers, I thought the comparison was worthy of discussion.

He took fifteen shots against Arkansas, so many shots that he was taken out of the starting lineup for a game.

We don't need our point guard to score 12 points per game. We need him to be a threat to score, but his job should be primarily to get other guys involved. He's done a great job. He only had six assists against UT but that number would have been much higher had we been able to knock down our open jumpers. We probably would have won the game if Boynton and/or Murphy had been able to knock home a few of them.

Honestly, Wilbekin's scoring ability is the least of my concerns about this team. We're not going to win many games against decent competition when Boynton and Murphy go a combined 4-17 from the field and 1-9 from outside. Hopefully the game was a fluke shooting performance and we'll get it out of our system against Bama on Saturday.

[madgator]

Originally Posted by GatorsGators

He took fifteen shots against Arkansas, so many shots that he was taken out of the starting lineup for a game.

We don't need our point guard to score 12 points per game. We need him to be a threat to score, but his job should be primarily to get other guys involved. He's done a great job. He only had six assists against UT but that number would have been much higher had we been able to knock down our open jumpers. We probably would have won the game if Boynton and/or Murphy had been able to knock home a few of them.

Honestly, Wilbekin's scoring ability is the least of my concerns about this team. We're not going to win many games against decent competition when Boynton and Murphy go a combined 4-17 from the field and 1-9 from outside. Hopefully the game was a fluke shooting performance and we'll get it out of our system against Bama on Saturday.

DEAR LORD THANK YOU!


it only took 2 1/2 days for someone to point this very important fact out. Guys were missing wide open jumpers all over the court.

[gatorfan228]

As already mentioned wilbekins biggest flaw is the free throw shooting. I'd take wilbekin over walker or calathes any day of the week. We win or lose based on jump shots from Murphy, boynton, and Rosario...Wilbekin is one of the very few players on the team who I'd say is actually doing his job at the moment.

[outbackjack]

Originally Posted by NorthCaptivaGator

Walker. Calathes and Green were all over 12ppg, we miss the scoring from that position

So we need to be more like the Calathes years when we would land mid round NIT?

Scottie is doing a fine job productivity wise.

This is a bad thread premise.

[SmootyGator]

Originally Posted by grant1

A much bigger concern is that our starting shooting guard is making only 31% of his 3s.

He'll be 40% by the end of the season!

[ThePlayer]

Originally Posted by gatordd

scottie is a bright spot in this otherwise stagnant ass offense.. pound the ball down low to murph

Murphy looked overwhelmed at Tennessee.
He gave up right after his teammates did.

[fox]

Next year scotty's toughness on defense will show up in his offense. His ft shooting will improve also.

[NorthCaptivaGator]

Originally Posted by fox

Next year scotty's toughness on defense will show up in his offense. His ft shooting will improve also.

Next year Scotty will not have to be the primary ball handler while also guarding the opponents top scorer, I think it takes a lot out of him, that should help his fg and ft %.
The premise of this thread was not to bash Scotty, simply to point out that even in the years we had Noah, Horford, Brewer and Humphry we were getting better than 12/game from the point guard position. a good number of points from the point guard position have traditionally comes the free-throw line, we are not getting that this year, I think that hurts us late in close games. You can certainly disagree with my opinion but I think it makes sense as to our struggles, especially on the road.

[patsyruth2008]

Originally Posted by NorthCaptivaGator

No worries, I am just posting my legitimate concerns and when those concerns become apparent in the context of a game I comment on it, there is nothing hypocritical about that.

I never argued with Mad or Insti when they discussed Walker's shortcomings as a player, there is no doubt he had them, what got me riled about those two was when they would say things like Walker is zero sum, a bad teammate, or a "me first guy" who cared more about stats than winning, they attacked his character and it pissed me off.

I am a big Wilbekin fan, I love his defense and he has really improved his ball handling. My biggest concern last year was that the offense became stagnant with Walker on the bench and Scotty running the point. That is no longer the case, he has improved that part of his game as well. My concern with his lack of scoring is legit in comparison with prior point guards in THIS offense. He gets plenty of open looks and needs to stop deferring so much, especially when the defense is switching like Arky and UT were, if he doesn't make the defense pay for switching a Big to guard him then it makes it tougher on the rest of the team to get looks, plain and simple. Historically Billy's point guards have been 12 pt/game or better scorers, I thought the comparison was worthy of discussion.

Thanks, I appreciate the clarification and apologize for making the assumption that this was your way of getting back at some pro Wilbekin fans that used to get frustrated with Erving's play. My bad. I do agree with you (and everyone else) that Scottie's free throw shooting is much lower than I expected and it could come back to haunt us. But I also think that Insti makes a great point in that Scottie has not had many chances to shoot free throws in "big game" situations because of our HUGE leads in most games and when we are close teams are not fouling us to put us on the line. Free Throw shooting is such a rhythm type thing that the more opportunities you get in each game the better you will shoot (though Patric and Will rebuke that notion). However, his front end miss on the 1and1 against Missouri after he just missed the second of two was concerning............

Anyway, thanks again for the clarification and let's kick some Bama butt this Saturday!!!!!!!!!!!! GO GATORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[regurgigator]

Originally Posted by outbackjack

So we need to be more like the Calathes years when we would land mid round NIT?

Scottie is doing a fine job productivity wise.

This is a bad thread premise.

One player, no matter how incredibly productive he is, does not bear responsibility for what a team accomplishes.

But, since you ask, the answer is most emphatically yes, it would be great to add a player to this team capable of scoring about 17 ppg, pulling down about 6 rpg, and making assists at a higher rate than any Gator player before or since, even as a freshman and sophomore. (And if you're thinking about going there, please spare me the overblown comments on Nick's supposedly non-existent defense. I don't remember if it was all the time, but I remember Donovan assigning Nick to guard the other team's best perimeter offensive player more than once.)


As to the OP, Wilbekin is doing just fine.

(BTW, I'd put money on SW holding McRae to below his average if they meet again.)

[ncorangeblue]

Originally Posted by grant1

A much bigger concern is that our starting shooting guard is making only 31% of his 3s.

This! Need Kenny to find his stroke

[Bedlam]

This is not a very well thought out thread. It might have some merit if our offense was poor this year, but it's not. Not even close. It's better than any year that we had Calathes or Walker here. Wilbekin is productive enough, points wise.

I'm honestly baffled by this thread.

[NorthCaptivaGator]

Originally Posted by Bedlam

This is not a very well thought out thread. It might have some merit if our offense was poor this year, but it's not. Not even close. It's better than any year that we had Calathes or Walker here. Wilbekin is productive enough, points wise.

I'm honestly baffled by this thread.

I found it interesting that no starting point guard in this offense had averaged under 12 ppg in the last 10 years and we are currently getting 9 ppg from the position- will it be an issue as we move forward? Is the decrease in points strictly related to a lack of free throw attempts and a lower than usual ft % from the position? Does it matter? Isn't that what a discussion board is for? I was very interested to see that our points/100 possessions are actually better than what we have seen lately- something I would not have known absent this thread.

Patiently waiting for Bama!

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by NorthCaptivaGator

I found it interesting that no starting point guard in this offense had averaged under 12 ppg in the last 10 years and we are currently getting 9 ppg from the position- will it be an issue as we move forward? Is the decrease in points strictly related to a lack of free throw attempts and a lower than usual ft % from the position? Does it matter? Isn't that what a discussion board is for? I was very interested to see that our points/100 possessions are actually better than what we have seen lately- something I would not have known absent this thread.

Patiently waiting for Bama!

It also has to do with the slower pace this team plays with than other UF teams. Thus everyone has fewer shots. Fewer shots means less scoring.

[themistocles]

The Gator's starting PG could average 3 points per game and the team could be the best in the land.

There is nothing magical about any given number of points per game. All 8 guys who play could average 1 point per game apiece and the team could well be undefeated, if the opponents only average 5 points per game.

This is just as absurd as that guy who records what the past 12 national champions have done and then, in you are 1/10th of a point below the scoring average he says you don't fit.

Simply absurd.

All of this is nothing other than RELATIVE!!!!!