Diabetes Weight-Loss Study Ends Early With Surprising Result

[LeafUF]

I hope more people stop eating gluten so I can have it all to myself. Its amazing how many people are self-diagnosing themselves with gluten intolerance. I dated a girl with celiac, trust me, you would know if you had a legitimate gluten allergy.

By all means cut it out of your diets, leave the pastas to me.

[gators04]

Back to the studies. I'm sure there are studies that may highly correlate obesity negatively with longevity because of the negative influence of other factors involved with obesity. Do overweight individuals die younger than thin individuals?? It can be convoluted with so many factors involved with the body, ie, genetics, etc.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by gators04

Back to the studies. I'm sure there are studies that may highly correlate obesity negatively with longevity because of the negative influence of other factors involved with obesity. Do overweight individuals die younger than thin individuals?? It can be convoluted with so many factors involved with the body, ie, genetics, etc.

(Dream sees opening, others will surely understand), based on the studies, the only negative implication of obesity would appear to be mobility issues, but of course this would only pertain to the fattest of the fat, the people who are so, so very fat that it's literally arduous (and sometimes painful) to move.

The 'negative influences' ascribed to obesity are so-called 'risk factors', which are basically just associations. In other words, there is no evidence that obesity actually causes diabetes, to cite one of the 'risk factors.'

But since we do know that obesity confers protections for diabetics, the question begs: how much longer can we refer to such as a 'paradox' before we finally accept that it's a benefit ?

To bring the subject full-circle, since this is a fitness forum, I think it's safe to say that, other than eating normally, the single best thing a diabetic can do is get some regular exercise.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by Gatormb

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2002/...search&key=cla

I consider LEF to be reputable.

Sure, but LEF did not do the studies.

The initial study was done at the behest of a supplement company. Most non-commercial follow-up studies either showed no effect or negative effect at the levels of the initial study.

The positive rat-based studies were at the equivalent of 22g of CLA a day in a 200lb human. That comes out to a bit more than $1/day.

Like I said, I don't think it'll hurt you to try it, but I have and it's not backed with a lot of sound research, sadly.

The consensus from seventeen published studies in human subjects is that CLA does not affect body weight or body composition. Some detrimental effects of the trans-10,cis-12 CLA isomer have also been reported in terms of altered blood lipid composition and impaired insulin sensitivity.

Read more: http://journals.cambridge.org/downlo...9d566e33aeaf5e

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by gators04

Back to the studies. I'm sure there are studies that may highly correlate obesity negatively with longevity because of the negative influence of other factors involved with obesity.

There are myriad studies that support this, yes:

Conclusions: Obesity is an independent risk factor for intensive care unit death and should be regarded as a severe comorbidity in such units.

During follow-up we observed a statistically significant increased risk of mortality from all causes (hazard ratio: 1.4; 95% CI: 1.2, 1.6), cardiovascular disease, and cancer for women in the highest quartile of BMI (in kg/m2), ≥27.77.

In those populations, it seems well accepted that lowest mortality is in the range of BMI between 18.5 and 25 kg.m(-2). When BMI reached values of 30 kg x m(-2) or more, mortality is substantially elevated by about 50-150%.

If you're talking about just health and life, it's OK to be fat, but it ain't OK to be obese.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Some more:

Diabetes:

In the Nurses’ Health Study, which followed 114,000 middle-age women for 14 years, the risk of developing diabetes was 93 times higher among women who had a body mass index (BMI) of 35 or higher at the start of the study, compared with women with BMIs lower than 22. (2)

Cardiovascular disease:

Numerous studies have demonstrated a direct association between excess body weight and coronary artery disease (CAD). The BMI–CAD Collaboration Investigators conducted a meta-analysis of 21 long-term studies that followed more than 300,000 participants for an average of 16 years. Study participants who were overweight had a 32 percent higher risk of developing CAD, compared with participants who were at a normal weight; those who were obese had an 81 percent higher risk. (9)

Stroke:

Ischemic (clot-caused) stroke and coronary artery disease share many of the same disease processes and risk factors. A meta-analysis of 25 prospective cohort studies with 2.3 million participants demonstrated a direct, graded association between excess weight and stroke risk. Overweight increased the risk of ischemic stroke by 22 percent, and obesity increased it by 64 percent.

Cardiovascular death:

In a meta-analysis of 26 observational studies that included 390,000 men and women, several racial and ethnic groups, and samples from the U.S. and other countries, obesity was significantly associated with death from CAD and cardiovascular disease. Women with BMIs of 30 or higher had a 62 percent greater risk of dying early from CAD and also had a 53 percent higher risk of dying early from any type of cardiovascular disease, compared with women who had BMIs in the normal range (18.5 to 24.9). Men with BMIs of 30 or higher had similarly elevated risks. (11)

Breast cancer:

Encouragingly, the Nurses’ Health Study has found that for overweight women who have never used hormone replacement therapy, losing weight after menopause—and keeping it off—cut their risk of post-menopausal breast cancer in half. (16)

Other cancers:

In an exhaustive review of the data, released in 2007, an expert panel assembled by the World Cancer Research Fund and the American Institute for Cancer Research concluded that there was convincing evidence of an association between obesity and cancers of the esophagus, pancreas, colon and rectum, breast, endometrium, and kidney, and a probable association between obesity and gallbladder cancer. (15)

Fertility:

In the Nurses’ Health Study, infertility was lowest in women with BMIs between 20 and 24, and increased with lower and higher BMIs. (20) This study suggests that 25 percent of ovulatory infertility in the United States may be attributable to obesity.

Asthma & Sleep Apnea:

Asthma and obstructive sleep apnea are two common respiratory diseases that have been linked with obesity. In a meta-analysis of seven prospective studies that included 333,000 subjects, obesity increased the risk of developing asthma in both men and women by 50 percent. (33)

Alzheimer's:

Body weight is a potentially modifiable risk factor for Alzheimer’s disease and dementia. A meta-analysis of 10 prospective cohort studies that included almost 42,000 subjects followed for three to 36 years demonstrated a U-shaped association between BMI and Alzheimer’s disease.

Skeletal issues:

Osteoarthritis of the knee and hip are both positively associated with obesity, and obese patients account for one-third of all joint replacement operations. (39)

Death in general:

Findings from larger studies that have more accurately accounted for reverse causation and smoking clearly show that increasing weight increases the risks of dying from cardiovascular disease, cancer, and other causes. In a 14-year study of a million-person cohort, researchers restricted their analyses to initially healthy nonsmokers. The risk of death from all causes, cardiovascular disease, cancer, or other diseases increased as BMI increased above the healthiest range of 23.5 to 24.9 in men and 22.0 to 23.4 in women. (48)

[Dreamliner]

Relative to normal weight, obese (BMI 30-35) not associated with higher mortality risk:

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article....icleid=1555137

Women over 50, lowest mortality risk at 34.1, upper-range Class I obese:

http://www.healthyweight.net/obesity1.htm#1

According to CDC, among non-smokers under 60, obese (BMI 30-35) 23% lower mortality risk than normal weight. Morbidly obese (BMI 35+) mere untenable risk 12-17%:

http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/...crisis-is.html

Highest BMI's only weakly associated with mortality. Obese diabetics fare better than lean diabetics:

http://www.jabfm.org/content/25/4/422.full

[Dreamliner]

Desperately confused about risk factors:

http://junkfoodscience.blogspot.com/...k-factors.html

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

Relative to normal weight, obese (BMI 30-35) not associated with higher mortality risk:

http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article....icleid=1555137

Tsk, tsk. Can't even read your own link

1.18 (95% CI, 1.12-1.25) for obesity (all grades combined)

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

Highest BMI's only weakly associated with mortality.

Nope, well-supported and not even close to being weak.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Aaaannd back to your first link:

Relative to normal weight, both obesity (all grades) and grades 2 and 3 obesity were associated with significantly higher all-cause mortality.

Durrrr, being obese = not good.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

Tsk, tsk. Can't even read your own link

Same study: "Overall Grade I obesity not associated with higher mortality risk."

CDC study: relatively fewer deaths in two heaviest groups (overweight, obese) lower mortality risk than two leanest groups (underweight, normal):

http://www.healthyweight.net/cntroversy.htm

^ Interesting read about the politics-driven nature of obesity research and how it colors findings.

[Dreamliner]

This notion of since obesity is linked with higher rates of diabetes, that the thing to do is simply not to become obese to begin with, is absurd and infantile.

For starters, diabetes, and especially obesity, are highly heritable. There is no more evidence that people eat their way into diabetes than there is that people eat their way into obesity.

Put another way, the man with a BMI of 35 ate his way to a BMI of 35 in the same way that a man with a BMI of 23 ate his way to a BMI of 23. And all told, better to be a diabetic with a BMI of 35:

http://diabetes.webmd.com/20120807/o...ype-2-diabetes

Accordingly, since getting fat doesn't cause diabetes, and since the vast majority cannot sustain weight-loss, and since weight-loss does not prevent heart attacks in diabetes, and since fat diabetics live longer than thin diabetics, and since health can be improved through weight-neutral strategies ... you'd be a blithering idiot to badger a diabetic about his/her weight.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

Same study: "Overall Grade I obesity not associated with higher mortality risk."

Again, you cannot or will not read it. The actual data shows HIGHER MORTALITY RATE for every single group.

Read it again. A thousand times until you somehow understand it. The data showed higher mortality rate for every single group of obese people than the overweight category.

You have not only made a ludicrous argument, you're actually using contradictory data to support it. It's staggering. I'd let it go, but you're in a position to actually dole out this terrible advice based on a total misunderstanding of all scientific data.

I mean, you realize all of this, right? That you're completely wrong top-to-bottom about obesity and mortality.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Grade 1 Obese: HIGHER mortality than next lowest category

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

Grade 1 Obese: HIGHER mortality than next lowest category

According to Flegal, 5% lower mortality for BMI 30-35 than normal weight. Women over 50 with BMI 34 longest-lived. Among non-smokers under 60, 23% lower mortality risk for obese than for normal.

Why are you badgering diabetics about their weight ? Do you want to kill them ?

Un-fricking-believable.

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

According to Flegal, 5% lower mortality for BMI 30-35 than normal weight.

Changing the argument? Well at least you finally understand the data. (hopefully, we'll see)

Being obese puts you at higher mortality rate than being overweight. If you are obese (in all obesity grades, smoking data removed), you reduce your risk of death by any causes by losing weight. Period.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

Changing the argument? Well at least you finally understand the data. (hopefully, we'll see)

Being obese puts you at higher mortality rate than being overweight. If you are obese (in all obesity grades, smoking data removed), you reduce your risk of death by any causes by losing weight. Period.

Not true. Flegal is everywhere! She finds: Grade I obese lives longer. So, obviously these hysterical declarations of risks increasing over BMI 30 are false on their face:

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-hlo122712.php

And hey, not only is this true of Americans (and Canadians), it's also true of the Brazilians:

http://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23251690

Diabetics need to lose weight, my ass. What, do you want to kill them ? Thanks!

[orangeblueorangeblue]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

Not true. Flegal is everywhere! She finds: Grade I obese lives longer.

This is the opposite of what the study found.

The exact opposite. I'm flabbergasted that you still don't understand the study or the data. God forbid an obese person actually come to you for advice.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by orangeblueorangeblue

This is the opposite of what the study found.

The exact opposite. I'm flabbergasted that you still don't understand the study or the data. God forbid an obese person actually come to you for advice.

What is flabbergasting is, well, several things are flabbergasting where you're concerned ... so I'll take it in installments:

You're confusing the earlier CDC findings with the much more extensive and accurate studies of Flegal and her breakdown of the study therein.

Other studies I've posted are consistent with Flegal's findings that not only do risks not escalate about BMI 30, but the 30-35 category outlives normal weight weight.

You clearly don't like the findings.

You continue to harp on associations.

You have apparently not backed off badgering diabetics about their weight.

Astonishing.