Some of you do know we only played 6 guys right?

[GatorJeff]

Originally Posted by jms

I'm beginning to question their mental toughness, didn't win a difficult road game did we? Maybe Texas A M
I'm a believer that the neutral site NCAA will be different. We will see how they react in SEC tourney

It is far easier to beat good teams at neutral sites with neutral crowds and neutral officials than to beat average SEC teams on the road. Our '06 national champs were 4-4 in SEC road games and 6-0 in the NCAA tournament, and our '07 national champs were 5-3 in SEC road games and 6-0 in the NCAA tournament. That tells you about all you need to know. I wish people would quit crying about the SEC road losses and keep things in perspective.

[ArtVandelay]

Originally Posted by GatorJeff

I wish people would quit crying about the SEC road losses and keep things in perspective.

Why does any negative comment have to be "crying"?

We should expect to win every game. Doesn't mean that we will.

Also, there is a difference between a game that you can see yourself losing (before it is played) and then analyzing it afterwards and thinking that you should have won.

[SmootyGator]

Originally Posted by luciaboy

bd has really not helped build depth by keeping the starters in until 1-2 minutes left in the game with 20-30 point leads

Seriously, how much better would our bench be by getting 30 minutes total of mop-up time?

[Distant Gator]

Originally Posted by SmootyGator

I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I really don't think that getting our Freshman a few minutes playing in those four games would have had much impact on how good they would have played in last night's game. These guys practice countless hours outside of games. The coaches watch all of these practices and they just don't think these guys have what it takes to be in the rotation. These guys have been playing basketball for their whole lives. They have spent THOUSANDS of hours practicing and playing basketball. If you think that them getting 30 minutes of game time at the end of 4 blowout games is somehow going to magically make them ready to play at an elite level, I've got news for you. (The preceding wasn't necessarily directed at you, Distant Gator)

I'm sure playing them would have helped our starters get *some* rest. I just don't think it is as big of a deal as you make it out to be. I think our fatigue came from having only 6 of our starting 8 available and having to play extra minutes last night, not because they played an extra 6-8 minutes of garbage time two days prior. Maybe I'm wrong... who knows...

All that being said, CoachSayre in this thread (or another) also said that we still need to get our starting 8 some work, and that's why we kept them in. Doesn't also seem obvious that a team that can't close out games should be working on getting better at the end of games? People call our team soft. Shouldn't we be getting our starters as much playing time as possible to harden them up?

I want to be clear- I'm no expert either. And you make some good points. My post started with facts but my conclusions are speculaton.

The following are my opinions for my speculation:

1) Re: young guys. They can practice all they want but there is nothing that compares to game experience. A few minutes of court time ramp up their learning.
2) There is very little downside to playing these guys in a blowout. We aren't losing to Auburn, USCe or UGA (at home) after being up 20+.
3) Game minutes take a toll on our starters. If a guy is fresher after playing 30 instead of 40 in a game, then wouldn't 24 be better than 30?

If these 3 reasons are valid, then they are a good argument for rotating a little more than we have been. They are the basis for my speculation but I'm the first to admit- it's just speculation from a message board fan.

[BengermanV]

Originally Posted by regurgigator

I don't think there's much more to be said at this point.

After watching this team for almost a full season, some of us are convinced they're a pretty special group, and will be one of the top couple of favorites to win it all come NCAA Tourney time (assuming the do get healthy).

Others of you see a decent Top 20 team (maybe borderline Top 10), but nothing too special.

Let's see it play out.

I could see this team being special if it gets healthy, that's for sure. Right now, its not a great basketball team IMO.

[SmootyGator]

Originally Posted by Distant Gator

I want to be clear- I'm no expert either. And you make some good points. My post started with facts but my conclusions are speculaton.

The following are my opinions for my speculation:

1) Re: young guys. They can practice all they want but there is nothing that compares to game experience. A few minutes of court time ramp up their learning.
2) There is very little downside to playing these guys in a blowout. We aren't losing to Auburn, USCe or UGA (at home) after being up 20+.
3) Game minutes take a toll on our starters. If a guy is fresher after playing 30 instead of 40 in a game, then wouldn't 24 be better than 30?

If these 3 reasons are valid, then they are a good argument for rotating a little more than we have been. They are the basis for my speculation but I'm the first to admit- it's just speculation from a message board fan.

Well I'm an expert at speculation, so let me retort!

1) I just disagree with you on this one. Sure, any minutes are going to help, but really, how much? The way I look at it is to look at Frazier. He certainly has gotten better as the season has progressed, and his in-game experience has certainly helped him. But if you look at how much better he got after all of the minutes he's played, and assumed that the other freshman would get better to the same ratio that they played real minutes, they would not be noticeably better. In other words, Frazier didn't get noticeably better after his first 30 minutes of game experience, so why would the other freshman?

2) I agree that there isn't much, if any of a downside, I just think there isn't really that much of an upside either. I would rather just get my starters as much practice as possible. That of course is just my expert speculation.

3) This one I really don't know the answer to. I'm sure there is an optimal amount of time that players should play, depending on the conditioning of the player. Play too little and you lose some of your stamina and conditioning. Play too much and you get wore out quicker in the next game (especially two days later). I would like to think that the staff knows more about this than me or you, and knows who can go those extra couple of minutes without it affecting them for the next game. In my expert speculation however, I wouldn't think that playing 35 minutes in lieu of only 30 minutes would have that much effect on anyone (maybe more on big men?). Keep in mind that these last 5 minutes are in garbage time too, so I doubt that players are going 100% whole time.

[SmootyGator]

Originally Posted by BengermanV

I could see this team being special if it gets healthy, that's for sure. Right now, its not a great basketball team IMO.

Well of course! You take away two key members of any NCAA basketball team and they wouldn't great.

IMO, when we've had a healthy team, we've had a good team. When we've had troubles with injuries, etc., we've not been that good. I hope we have everyone healthy for the Bama game so everyone can see just how good we are! Something tells me that if everyone is back and getting a decent number of minutes that we'll win that game by 30.

[HALLGATOR]

In addition to the injuries we also lost another front court player at the beginning of the year which could have provided some much needed minutes. Thus our rotation would have been 9 players at full strength instead of 8.

[iam4uf]

Have we been at 100% for any of our losses? Even if we did have everyone, losing continuity with players being out did hurt UF. On top of the injuries, losing Larson's few minutes backing up Patric was big. People need to be less critical of this situation...

[sleeze]

I don't see why it would hurt to put in 1 or 2 freshman in w/ the regulars....with a 20 point lead.

I think doing it, you would have more to gain in the long run.

If the freshmen make a couple of mistakes just sub him back out...its not rocket science.

[socraticsilence]

Originally Posted by Noahtogo24

Seriously.... I'm frustrated as the rest of you but c'mon guys, Frazier and Willy Y should be back this weekend. Don't give up on the guys yet.

We'll get better no doubt, but let's be real our numbers are as good as they are (Top 5 in basically every major category but rebounding) because we play no one. We're a really good team but we're not elite-- its like how during football season FSU fan's kept pointing out that they had the #1 defense in America statistically-- its true but its deceptive since they played in the ACC.

[socraticsilence]

Originally Posted by CoachSayre

Sorry we aren't going to put them in at the 8-10 minute mark in the second half when we have things that we need to work on with the top 8.

When you're up 30 you're not going to teach your starters too much they aren't going to learn in practice since the opposition isn't exactly pushing them, your back ups on the other hand can get a feel for real play.

[gatordee]

In Billy I trust. He has a way of holding great teams back in order to get them gelling at just the right time. These injuries along with the losses may be a blessing in disguise.

[socraticsilence]

Originally Posted by GatorJeff

It is far easier to beat good teams at neutral sites with neutral crowds and neutral officials than to beat average SEC teams on the road. Our '06 national champs were 4-4 in SEC road games and 6-0 in the NCAA tournament, and our '07 national champs were 5-3 in SEC road games and 6-0 in the NCAA tournament. That tells you about all you need to know. I wish people would quit crying about the SEC road losses and keep things in perspective.

This team could possibly come together like the 06 team, that's true but I really wish people would quit using the 07 teams mid-year malaise as an excuse- that team basically coasted because they knew they could just turn it on in March and April, it was like watching an NBA team-- when they were pushed by what they viewed as a real threat they destroyed people even during the regular season see the OSU game.

[ovillegator]

Originally Posted by socraticsilence

We'll get better no doubt, but let's be real our numbers are as good as they are (Top 5 in basically every major category but rebounding) because we play no one. We're a really good team but we're not elite-- its like how during football season FSU fan's kept pointing out that they had the #1 defense in America statistically-- its true but its deceptive since they played in the ACC.

Get your point and agree... but please NEVER use F$U as a comparison to the Gators in any way. Just creepy, IMHO.

[gatormann]

I agree there is a case to be made to play the three "other" freshmen more. What would it hurt if they had a few more minutes here or there in our blowout wins?

I also believe that it probably wouldn't make much difference. It is clear, Donovan either believes that these guys were not ready and had not earned additional minutes. There's nothing that we've seen of Ogbueze, Walker or Graham that would lead anyone to think otherwise.

Florida, does, however, need its bench to contribute. For this year, that bench consists of Frazier, Yugete and Prather. Hopefully, we will have them all back soon and the Gators can regroup and get back to playing its best basketball.

[regurgigator]

Originally Posted by socraticsilence

We'll get better no doubt, but let's be real our numbers are as good as they are (Top 5 in basically every major category but rebounding) because we play no one. We're a really good team but we're not elite-- its like how during football season FSU fan's kept pointing out that they had the #1 defense in America statistically-- its true but its deceptive since they played in the ACC.

Simply not true.

Even if you disregard all the SEC teams that we've completely dismantled (which I think is a mistake), we also crushed some pretty good OOC teams prior to conference play.

The key is the awesome defense we've shown we're capable of when everyone is healthy. That defense feeds our offense as well IMO.

[bullish]

Tennessee played 10 players, when was the last time we did? I personally feel you get everyone to buy in by playing them a little, but Billy seems to tighen up the bench, seems like on the road especially. Maybe next year we will have the perfect scenario for Billy to play more guys, I hope.

[gatorev12]

Originally Posted by SmootyGator

Don't forget: If we're up by 20 with 10 minutes to go and we put the Freshman in that it will probably lead to the other team working the score back down some. If they get that lead down to 10, it becomes a 10 point (close) game. Seeing as how the Gators can't win close games, we would surely lose. So basically you're saying that we should put our Freshman in and lose in that situation (yes, I know I'm putting words in your mouth). Haters gonna hate.

You're assuming we'd lose every game that got to us being up 10 late in the game. Which is patently false. We beat Kentucky, MTSU, Ole Miss, and others when the score was around that number with under 10 minutes to go in the second half.

And nothing is stopping Donovan from yanking the freshman if they're making too many mistakes and a 20-25 point lead gets cut down to 10-15 in quick order.

But, really, I think you need to pay better attention to my post. I'm not calling for us to substitute our entire bench in there with 10 minutes left in the game. Rather, put in the freshman one by one (or, at most, two at a time) and rest a starter or two in those stretches.

4 of the 5 spots on the court will be occupied by our top 6-7 rotation...and if the score gets cut down quickly, it would stand to reason that the regulars are also screwing up too.

[gatorev12]

Originally Posted by gatormann

I agree there is a case to be made to play the three "other" freshmen more. What would it hurt if they had a few more minutes here or there in our blowout wins?

I also believe that it probably wouldn't make much difference. It is clear, Donovan either believes that these guys were not ready and had not earned additional minutes. There's nothing that we've seen of Ogbueze, Walker or Graham that would lead anyone to think otherwise.

Florida, does, however, need its bench to contribute. For this year, that bench consists of Frazier, Yugete and Prather. Hopefully, we will have them all back soon and the Gators can regroup and get back to playing its best basketball.

I don't think anyone is saying that Braxton, Walker, or Graham are ready right now--or that keeping them on the bench is denying our team production.

What we're saying is that our team has struggled with injuries and suspensions all year long and depth has been a pesky problem. Every team needs production from its bench--and this season, it's been very rare when all 3 of Frazier, Yeguete, and Prather were healthy and ready to play. As a result, our team has more often than not been entirely reliant on 6-7 players in a rotation...and over the course of a season, the heavy number of minutes on our starters add up--especially when you factor in the amount of miles in travel time our team has racked up.

DistantGator summed it up when he asked whether it was better to have our starters averaging 24-26 minutes per game and us blowing the team out by 15+ points...or our starters averaging 30-34 minutes per game and us blowing out a team by 25+ points.

Not only that, but playing in closer games DOES help a team overcome adversity, which is something we really haven't demonstrated this year.