This. And even if we did, whats so immoral about wanting to be moral?
The thought that its immoral to "force" you morals doesn't float with me. (Sorry @matthanuf) I think morals factor into everything. They are akin to ethics.There are things in this world that are flatly immoral. Not saying that this conversation equates to morals, but its just a side opinion, I'm dropping into the conversation.
And please tell why what Bama is doing is unethical or immoral for that matter?
And sorry I think it is much more unethical to force a kid to do what you want him to do.
People don't like what Bama is doing, but on what planet does that give you the right to nose in others business? You all sound like cry babies honestly.
So can someone please answer...if a kid wants to go to Alabama (or Florida for that matter) and take the risk that they get buried in the depth chart or pushed out...what gives you the right to tell them that choice is the wrong one?
This isn't about "liking" Bama or Saban. It's about freedom and busting your butt off. Kids should be able to go to the school that they want to go, and coaches should do 100% what they can to win within the rules (and without sacrificing the mission of the institution)
I don't like Bama one iota, but Saban is turning these boys into well-spoken, prepared to be productive citizens, young men, for the most part. They dress properly, show respect and discipline, and obviously have taken several public speaking courses. His players impress me and I guaran-damn-tee you, I ain't easily impressed.
Assuming they don't get hurt or beat out for a position if that's the case you can die in a gutter as far as Nick is concerned.
It is called roster management within the rules as they are currently written. The players know ,after all this time, to buy into the 'program' or be gone. Perform academically, athletically and keep your 'nose' clean or GTFO.
Saban is dead serious and his players know not to test him on it. Not a bad philosophy with today's entitlement player mentality in my opinion and one WM is trending toward. Lack of bodies has made it hard for him to fully implement.
Now, Bama booster's may be cheating, but Saban doesn't know anything about it, by design.
And please tell why what Bama is doing is unethical or immoral for that matter?
And sorry I think it is much more unethical to force a kid to do what you want him to do.
People don't like what Bama is doing, but on what planet does that give you the right to nose in others business? You all sound like cry babies honestly.
So can someone please answer...if a kid wants to go to Alabama (or Florida for that matter) and take the risk that they get buried in the depth chart or pushed out...what gives you the right to tell them that choice is the wrong one?
This isn't about "liking" Bama or Saban. It's about freedom and busting your butt off. Kids should be able to go to the school that they want to go, and coaches should do 100% what they can to win within the rules (and without sacrificing the mission of the institution)
Your so focused on "forcing the kid" that your missing the whole point. It's about forcing the school to do the right thing. This is not just about winning games, or at least should not be. COLLEGE football is not a professional sport, at least not at the moment but it sure is heading that way which will be it's down fall. The 85 scholarship limit was put in place because of Bama. Having a set of rules to play by and doing everything you can to find a loop hole to "get around those rules" is the tip of the iceberg of cheating. It is cheating without "technically" breaking the rules. You are playing by a set of rules different from everybody else to give you some type of advantage because why? If Nicky is such a great coach, why does he need to push the rules to the very edge of cheating?
By the way, I don't buy the whole "they knew what they were getting into when they went there" argument. Do you really believe these kids would not have went somewhere else if they knew they would be gray shirted and then let go after the next recruiting class? Most of these kids don't find out until AFTER NSD.
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Come on, boy, you better make it back home, again
Many roads I've travelled - they all kinda look the same
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Keep in mind Alabama has Carte Blanche on in-state HS players. With Auburn as awful as they were last year and the success Alabama has had the last 4 years, they have literally hundreds of 3, 4, and 5 star talent to pick from. Then add the best of the best from across the country to that list and you see why they oversign. It's smart because it allows them to see what these kids do over the Spring before cutting the fat.
Florida has no such recruiting ability since we have to deal with FSU amd Miami and the several other schools. Then we get plundered by schools out-of-state. Louisville had nearly as many Florida players as Florida had.
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"I am a Republican, a black, dyed in the wool Republican, and I never intend to belong to any other party than the party of freedom and progress" - Frederick Douglass, lived a slave, died a statesman, and 1st Black Presidential candidate
Signing players under a 1 year contract, with pressure to perform, is not "immoral" or "unethical." They know the rules coming in, sign under the rules and will lose their scholarship only if they do not perform. Scholarships should not be charity.
Signing players under a 1 year contract, with pressure to perform, is not "immoral" or "unethical." They know the rules coming in, sign under the rules and will lose their scholarship only if they do not perform. Scholarships should not be charity.
If that is the case I don't want to hear another person flapping their gums about them being paid and how its not fair
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"He never bitched, never moaned," Muschamp says. "He is the greatest example of a team player I've been around as a football coach."
- Will Muschamp on Mike Gillislee
Signing players under a 1 year contract, with pressure to perform, is not "immoral" or "unethical." They know the rules coming in, sign under the rules and will lose their scholarship only if they do not perform. Scholarships should not be charity.
This is the crux of the differing opinions.
A pro athlete on an NFL team... if he comes in does everything the coaches ask but he is still not able to perform as well as some free agents or up to the standards the coach wants. He should and would be cut.
A college student who comes in and does everything a coach asks, but he is still not able to reach the level the coach wants or is not as good as a new 5 star recruit. Should the coach take away this kids scholarship to make room for the 5 star? That's not what college sports is about.
Saban does this more than most and it makes him a scumbag.
And please tell why what Bama is doing is unethical or immoral for that matter?
And sorry I think it is much more unethical to force a kid to do what you want him to do.
People don't like what Bama is doing, but on what planet does that give you the right to nose in others business? You all sound like cry babies honestly.
So can someone please answer...if a kid wants to go to Alabama (or Florida for that matter) and take the risk that they get buried in the depth chart or pushed out...what gives you the right to tell them that choice is the wrong one?
This isn't about "liking" Bama or Saban. It's about freedom and busting your butt off. Kids should be able to go to the school that they want to go, and coaches should do 100% what they can to win within the rules (and without sacrificing the mission of the institution)
Chill man. My comment was a general one about morals. I also have voiced my dislike from Saban as being from my Dolphin fandom.
I have never said that what Bama does is immoral. Ive never mentioned morals in regards to Bama. You said it was immoral to force morals on others. I was speaking generally.
Not sure how that makes me a crybaby.
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Your so focused on "forcing the kid" that your missing the whole point. It's about forcing the school to do the right thing. This is not just about winning games, or at least should not be. COLLEGE football is not a professional sport, at least not at the moment but it sure is heading that way which will be it's down fall. The 85 scholarship limit was put in place because of Bama. Having a set of rules to play by and doing everything you can to find a loop hole to "get around those rules" is the tip of the iceberg of cheating. It is cheating without "technically" breaking the rules. You are playing by a set of rules different from everybody else to give you some type of advantage because why? If Nicky is such a great coach, why does he need to push the rules to the very edge of cheating?
By the way, I don't buy the whole "they knew what they were getting into when they went there" argument. Do you really believe these kids would not have went somewhere else if they knew they would be gray shirted and then let go after the next recruiting class? Most of these kids don't find out until AFTER NSD.
It keeps coming down to "forcing to do the right thing". The problem with that is what is the right thing? Who decides? Your POV just somehow assumes that your opinion is the right thing. Nevermind that they are not breaking any rules. Nevermind every one of those kids signed with Bama under their own free will. You just don't like it so it isn't right, so it must be changed!
The vast majority of schools allow the kids to renew their scholarships for four years if they are in good standing. So much so that it would be the expectation. . . . .
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This quote from the article makes me proud our our school. Way to go Foley!
"Some schools have recognized that one-year scholarships, renewable at the school’s pleasure, are morally indefensible. The majority of Big Ten schools, as well as Auburn and Florida, announced earlier this year that they’ve started giving incoming athletes four-year guarantees. But if you think the nation’s sports powers are disposed to do the right thing, you don’t know college sports."
Honestly, I'm less bothered by straight up buying players ala Miami or SMU than by what Saban does, both take players from other schools and help you win what Saban does also screws young men over.
Over signing, extra coaches that are supposedly not coaches. NCAA caved on that one already.
Getting around the time allowed for coaching be having a million annalists working with the SC coach to coach their student athletes in the off season.
Money, cars, houses and jobs for parents of athletes......
Basically everything FSU used to get away with plus some.
Signing players under a 1 year contract, with pressure to perform, is not "immoral" or "unethical." They know the rules coming in, sign under the rules and will lose their scholarship only if they do not perform. Scholarships should not be charity.
How about the good players who are contributing and solid but not spectacular performers? They are good citizens, good teammates and good students, but the coaches feel the scholarship is needed for a high school kid or a JC transfer who might, just might turn out to be better. It is OK to just toss them aside? I'm sure it was not what they or their parents were told during the recruiting period.
Many years ago, there was no limit on the number of scholarships a football program could offer. Bear Bryant would sign every decent player in the Southeast, just to keep them from going to a rival school. The fact that most of them ended up on the bench for their entire college career was not his concern. Then the members of the NCAA decided that there should be a limit, and it was set at 105. Later it was reduced to 85, and the death of quality college football was predicted. College football only got better.
Bear Bryant didn't like the limits, so he found a way to get around it (and gain an advantage over his opponents) by signing 85 to football, then offering track and basketball scholarships to other players and have them "walk on" to the football team. It was a sham, and the NCAA realized he was circumventing the spirit of the rules. The membership passed the "Bear Bryant Rule" (as it is informally but famously known) to stop the practice.
What Saban is doing now is essentially the same thing. He is circumventing the 85 scholarship limit in football by running guys off, declaring medical redshirts (on players who miraculously seem to recover and play elsewhere), pulling scholarships and using other techniques to "manage" his roster. More ethical schools and coaches who don't feel comfortable manipulating their players this way are put at a distinct disadvantage.
In order to win, is the answer to lower your standards, stoop to Saban's level and become more ethically challenged? Or should college football somehow try to stop his Bryant-like circumvention of the rules? My vote would be for the latter.
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