The Stock Market Boom

[theorangebluewinagain]

Originally Posted by Burke

What reason is there for optimism?

All of a sudden businessmen in this country are going to start investing, etc., to support Obama's welfare bum constituency?

The country is beyond the tipping point.

It took a war ( or really, FDR croaking) to get us out of the Great Depression.

What's going to happen this time?

A war with nukes?

What?

History say these things always end in war. But the big question is, who against who? And what precipitates it? That is the 64 miliion dollar question. We know it ends in war.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by fredsanford

These predictions of doom have been coming since 1/20/09.

Actually, they are very similar to ones that started 1/20/93 and were parroted for 8 years. We saw how that turned out.

Chicken littles all.

You mean that great economy that Clinton had with a Republican house? But the republican president bush ruined it with a Democrat controlled house?

[T3goalie]

$85 Billion a month can add a nice coat of paint, a new deck, beautiful furnishings, bay windows, a new roof and other niceties to a structure infested with termites. Looks great from the outside...but like the law of gravity the termites eventually win. The Titanic is a perfect analogy... This is no different. There is nothing new under the sun.

The policies in DC are crushing the middle and lower class... disposable income and job opportunities are drying up. Fixed income seniors are pinched by less and less buying power (food ,gas, utilities). Minorities are more poorly educated, more dependent, have less opportunities, higher unemployment, higher drop out rates, higher poverty rates and yet the Pols tell them they care. A generation of idiots is enslaving themselves in debt with student loans of 150,000 to be paid like a mortgage to the gov't over decades. At the same time the masses love them... The Obama lady comes to mind. What a poor soul. She has no chance. Dependence and central planning = contraction...

[Burke]

The question is, why have they been able to do this?

Why is the greatest nation in history being over-run by parasites who, for the most part, are the descendants of traditional Americans?

In order to completely understand that, you just have to read Ayn Rand.

Fundamentally, its the prevalence of some very bad ideas in our culture.

Germany was the most cultured nation in the world, the "land of poets and philosophers."

About 140 years later, it had Hitler and his ovens.

Essentially, the same thing has been happening here.

[Burke]

We had an economic meltdown in 2008, primarily because of massive govt screwing around in the financial and housing markets.

We've spent trillions since (6, has it been?).

What do we have to show for it?

The imminence of a far worse collapse as soon as the Fed stops its massive money printing program.

All the govt has done is destroy, steal some and spread it around to make things look better for a while, destroy some more, steal some more, . . . .

When it comes, it will be very, very bad.

Their "solution " then?

A police state, wars, God only knows,

[T3goalie]

Originally Posted by Burke

The question is, why have they been able to do this?

Why? ignorant and corrupt politicians... ignorant and entitled populace.

There are 2 basic reasons. First politicians are all bought an paid for by special interests and second they envision themselves being in charge and playing king. Both parties want control and to have control you must central plan. Look at Rick Scott as the most recent example. When the rubber met the road, he caved. Look at the GOP house majority leader and senate minority leader. They talk and posture but always cave to larger and more expansive government.

Rand wrote fiction where it is easy to see parallels. But Rand's novels are child's play compared to Hayek and Friedman. They wrote without the flair of a novel. "The Road to Serfdom" is spooky in that it reads like prophecy.

The simple fact is that the most productive country in the history of the world has become a consumer country living of credit and the largest debtor nation in the history of the world. The most productive people in the world have become the largest individual debtors. When production is replaced with consumption from credit you end up eating your young or just enslaving them in debt...

[Burke]

T3,

I would say that's a description of what's happening, not an explanation.

The question is why, what caused the changes?

I blame the public school system, but really, that's just a description and not an explanation, too.

Rand believed that political systems are products of cultural influences which, in turn, are the products of prevailing moralities, which are themselves products of underlying philosophies.

What are those ideas?

[T3goalie]

Originally Posted by Burke

Rand believed that political systems are products of cultural influences which, in turn, are the products of prevailing moralities, which are themselves products of underlying philosophies.

Interesting point. I guess my view in a general is...

The "Greatest Generation" was born out of thrift and war. They were bred on individual responsibility and individual resourcefulness. They valued thrift, saved for the rainy day, they built highways and power plants, valued privacy and modesty, put a man on a moon, and family was at the core. They were a product of legal immigration via Ellis Island seeking opportunity not subsidy. The built for excess capacity. And to a great extent they minded their own business. They accepted that they were required to live with the consequences of their poor decisions. They did not want hand outs and were embarrassed to receive such.

Conversely The "Baby Boom" generation, aka the most worthless generation, was bred on "sex, drugs and rock and roll, do your own thing, never trust anyone over 30, free love, don't work too hard, everybody is famous for 15 minutes"... Now the Baby Boom generation is entrenched in education and government. They are the leaders of the world and have no cornerstone or foundation other than self indulgence. They build nothing, complain about everything, emote. They will sacrifice people towns/counties/industries for a spotted owl or snail and they view themselves superior to the generation that preceded them because they have more degrees in psychology and sociology. They value image over substance and demand to be subsidized. They claim to care but can neither recognize a problem or solve such. They will borrow and enslave themselves to give the appearance of success. They will borrow to enslave future generations for their own self indulgence and comfort. They live in a false reality in which kicking a problem down the road is an art form. They engage in the "morality of me" but want to suffer none of the consequences of their actions. A loss equates to victim hood.

It appears i agree with Rand on your point. Who knew?

[dudehead]

Originally Posted by T3goalie

Interesting point. I guess my view in a general is...

The "Greatest Generation" was born out of thrift and war. They were bred on individual responsibility and individual resourcefulness. They valued thrift, saved for the rainy day, they built highways and power plants, valued privacy and modesty, put a man on a moon, and family was at the core. They were a product of legal immigration via Ellis Island seeking opportunity not subsidy. The built for excess capacity. And to a great extent they minded their own business. They accepted that they were required to live with the consequences of their poor decisions. They did not want hand outs and were embarrassed to receive such.

Conversely The "Baby Boom" generation, aka the most worthless generation, was bred on "sex, drugs and rock and roll, do your own thing, never trust anyone over 30, free love, don't work too hard, everybody is famous for 15 minutes"... Now the Baby Boom generation is entrenched in education and government. They are the leaders of the world and have no cornerstone or foundation other than self indulgence. They build nothing, complain about everything, emote. They will sacrifice people towns/counties/industries for a spotted owl or snail and they view themselves superior to the generation that preceded them because they have more degrees in psychology and sociology. They value image over substance and demand to be subsidized. They claim to care but can neither recognize a problem or solve such. They will borrow and enslave themselves to give the appearance of success. They will borrow to enslave future generations for their own self indulgence and comfort. They live in a false reality in which kicking a problem down the road is an art form. They engage in the "morality of me" but want to suffer none of the consequences of their actions. A loss equates to victim hood.

It appears i agree with Rand on your point. Who knew?

I think that another difference - perhaps the most important difference - is previous' generations' belief in God or a Supreme Being as the ordering point for their world even if, theologically, their specific beliefs within their culture differed quite a lot.

With our generation (I'm a young boomer), the prevailing spiritual mindset seems to be of self and self actualization - a morality of me, as you put it. I think you described a "me" centered culture quite well. I would only add that self centered people generally have difficulty in developing and maintaining authentic relationships and I think this is reflected throughout our culture with the most obvious and easy to see example being our political leadership's inability to relate to and work with one another on common goals.

[tegator80]

Not much insight, but just passing it on:

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...MPLATE=DEFAULT

[rajinGator]

T3, props to you. Your posts on this page are extremely well articulated.

[madgator]

There is a dark side to "the greatest generation" as well.


in many ways they were/are the ultimate "me" generation. they had no trouble demanding the benefits of WWII service where many came out completely debt free and educated with a business environment that promoted the possibility for growth.

then they had no trouble sending their childrens generation off to a meaningless war being that so many of them were able to profit.

they then had no issues creating regulations that didn't exist and allowed them to thrive. as they had to protect themselves from competition.

and I'd love to know when their altruism towards country ceased as they have offered nothing of theirs to protect the future. They have done nothing but demand protection of the status quo now for the last 40 years.


sure "the greatest generation" did a lot but they certainly made sure they protected their interests in the process.