Bama again No. 1 in oversigning

[wingtee]

Originally Posted by jjenkins5

As long as we remain competitive (and by that I mean we beat Bama a respectable amount of times for the SEC Championship and get the nod for the NC) then I'd far prefer to do things the "Florida Way", as Will puts it, i.e., the RIGHT way.

The kids attracted to what we offer are the kind we want in the locker room, and ultimately as lifelong members of Gator Nation. Not saying we don't want talent, just that we place a premium on character, too - including in our HBC. I'm much prouder to support what we're doing the way we're doing it than if we were bending the rules at every opportunity.

BTW, I feel similarly about Donovan over Calipari for essentially the same reasons.

Are you serious? Have you looked at our issues with athletes and the law. Good god, take of the perverbial O/B glasses.:

[nawlinsgator]

Originally Posted by Matthanuf06

Alabama is the best run program in the nation. Why on earth wouldn't you oversign and have more resources (analysts). They have a commitment to excellence and to winning. Good for them.

The kids certainly know the deal. Every school will use that against Bama. Yet the kids see it as the premier football school that is most committed to winning in the premier conference.

Winning at all costs is not equal to "the best run program". Finding a reason to kick a kid to the curb because you might have someone better in the wings...that's just immoral. I really hope we don't go that route.

[GatorLaw]

Originally Posted by nawlinsgator

I highly doubt this. I highly doubt Saban is telling them, "we're sigining you on for one year and see if you pan out". It may be written down somewhere in their paperwork, but I highly doubt the staff emphasizes that it's a one-year scholly. And I bet most of the kids do not know this.

I doubt that any coach emphasizes that scholarships are for one year only. However, I'd be surprised if any scholarship player doesn't know that. Somebody - his high school coach, an advisor, a parent, another player, somebody is going to explain that scholarships everywhere are and AFAIK always have been for one year only.

There's no such thing as a four-year football scholarship though some coaches have said they'll adopt a policy of making all scholarships four years (I seem to recall that WM and Mark Richt have both said this though I could be wrong). However, that's just their policy, it doesn't change the fact that scholarships are for one year and that's pretty much common knowledge I would have thought.

[tilly]

Originally Posted by elrongator

This.
Tilly we may disagree on Meyer's legacy, but this post made me laugh and I couldn't agree more.

Alabama - The "uniter" of The Gator Nation!

[Matthanuf06]

Originally Posted by nawlinsgator

Winning at all costs is not equal to "the best run program". Finding a reason to kick a kid to the curb because you might have someone better in the wings...that's just immoral. I really hope we don't go that route.

As long as they aren't lying to the kids then what is the problem? The kids are going to Bama to compete with and against the best, to play for titles, and to be coached by the best (and most). They know if they aren't up to it then they are gone. It's the deal.

We want guys that aren't afraid of competition, same with Bama.

And it's not "winning at all costs" as there is no cost. As far as we know they aren't cheating and aren't lying to kids.

[Matthanuf06]

Originally Posted by jjenkins5

As long as we remain competitive (and by that I mean we beat Bama a respectable amount of times for the SEC Championship and get the nod for the NC) then I'd far prefer to do things the "Florida Way", as Will puts it, i.e., the RIGHT way.

The kids attracted to what we offer are the kind we want in the locker room, and ultimately as lifelong members of Gator Nation. Not saying we don't want talent, just that we place a premium on character, too - including in our HBC. I'm much prouder to support what we're doing the way we're doing it than if we were bending the rules at every opportunity.

BTW, I feel similarly about Donovan over Calipari for essentially the same reasons.

Why is our way right and theirs are wrong? What makes you think our guys have more character than theirs? Having "analysts" on staff isn't bending the rules, being immoral, or any of that BS. It's playing by the rules and using all resources to win. Over signing isn't bad either if the kids know the deal, it's taking advantage of the fact kids want to play at the top school.

[TheRaid]

The problem with this article and most of the discussion on this thread is lack of research.

Bama did not violate any rules. They did not over-sign the way you and the article authors think of it.

The really big deal that is overlooked is that national signing day and the recruiting arms race is not about who signs, but about who "apparently signs".

How does Bama do it? A significant number (not a large number but a significant number) of their "signees" are not actually scholarship athletes. They did not really sign a bona fide LOI. They are funding their own education and using financial aid in some cases to pay for other things. When programs can sell a well enough off family on the great opportunity for the kid to play for the program and help the program out by surrounding your kid with great athletes, you can make a certain donation to the school or pay tuition and help the team by saving a scholarship. Miami did this for years. Texas does it all the time. That is one reason why Bama, Nebraska, and Texas have 6 thousand kids on their sidelines. Many schools have figured this out. I would not be surprised if we do it since Boom arrived.

Remember, everyone is almost always wrong when it comes to figuring out the scholarship count.

How did Saban sign more than the 25 allowed by the SEC rules? Counting back to last year, grayshirting, and getting kids who did not actually sign anything but still had a ceremony and were in the recruiting rankings.

[Gatorrick22]

Originally Posted by wingtee

LOL>.. no chance

They should have lost to LSU and UGA last year, but they got lucky. I also think we could have beaten them this past year as well.

We will be better next year than this past year, IMHO.

Any team in the SEC on any given game-day can lose.......

And please quit putting that team on a pedestal............it's unbecoming of a TRUE Gator fan.

[Swampmaster]

if it takes oversigning to win the crystal 3 of 4 years, then fla better start doing it too, or they'll be watching nick saban holding up that crystal ball in january for years to come.

[Swamp_of_Gators]

Originally Posted by Gatorrick22

They should have lost to LSU and UGA last year, but they got lucky. I think we could have beatenb them this year and we will be better next year than this past year, IMHO.

Any team in the SEC on any given game-day can lose.......

Quit putting that team on a pedestal............it's unbecoming of a TRUE Gator fan.

So true. If it wasn't for the idiotic decisions by the LSU coaching staff, Bama isn't even in Atlanta, let alone Miami.

[rounds]

Bama just reloads. They have a never ending supply of TRUCKS at RB, Trent and the kid from the Fernindina area this year, as well as the best Oline in college football, a very good QB, the best FR receiver from FLORIDA.
Nobody wants any part of that RB's tree-trunk thigh pads.
I hate them for taking FL's premier players every single damn year, but credit where credit is due.
Mad Hatter has only a slight chance.

[nawlinsgator]

Originally Posted by GatorLaw

I doubt that any coach emphasizes that scholarships are for one year only. However, I'd be surprised if any scholarship player doesn't know that. Somebody - his high school coach, an advisor, a parent, another player, somebody is going to explain that scholarships everywhere are and AFAIK always have been for one year only.

There's no such thing as a four-year football scholarship though some coaches have said they'll adopt a policy of making all scholarships four years (I seem to recall that WM and Mark Richt have both said this though I could be wrong). However, that's just their policy, it doesn't change the fact that scholarships are for one year and that's pretty much common knowledge I would have thought.

The vast majority of schools allow the kids to renew their scholarships for four years if they are in good standing. So much so that it would be the expectation.
I equate it to two boxers touching gloves at the beginning of a match. It's expected and everybody does it. But if one guy decides to sucker punch the other while he's got his hands raise, that well within the rules. Doesn't make it right.
Saban oversigning and jettisoning his players is an irregularity, that's why he's starting to get some attention for this. Looks like he's got about 10 kids to sucker punch this year.

[gnvgator]

Glenn Harbin Defensive Line Decided to play baseball; Link
Demetrius Goode Running Back Transfer to North Alabama; Link
Petey Smith Linebacker Transfer to Holems CC; Link
Brandon Moore Defensive Lineman Transfer to East Mississippi Community College; Link
Corey Grant Running Back Transfer to Auburn; Link
Keiwone Malone Wide Receiver Transfer to Memphis; Link
Robby Green Defensive Back Transfer to California University of Pennsylvania ; Link
Darrington Sentimore Defensive Lineman Transfer to Mississippi Gulf Coast Community College Link
Arron Douglas Offensive Lineman Died during offseason; RIP, hate having to list him here.
Kerry Murphy Defensive Line Medical Hardship
Kendall Kelly Defensive Back Medical Hardship
Wes Neighbors Defensive Back Medical Hardship

http://oversigning.com/testing/index...o-85-finished/

Good article on the personal cost of "roster management".

http://www.gainesvilletimes.com/archives/53185/

[Gatorrick22]

Originally Posted by TheRaid

The problem with this article and most of the discussion on this thread is lack of research.

Bama did not violate any rules. They did not over-sign the way you and the article authors think of it.

The really big deal that is overlooked is that national signing day and the recruiting arms race is not about who signs, but about who "apparently signs".

How does Bama do it? A significant number (not a large number but a significant number) of their "signees" are not actually scholarship athletes. They did not really sign a bona fide LOI. They are funding their own education and using financial aid in some cases to pay for other things. When programs can sell a well enough off family on the great opportunity for the kid to play for the program and help the program out by surrounding your kid with great athletes, you can make a certain donation to the school or pay tuition and help the team by saving a scholarship. Miami did this for years. Texas does it all the time. That is one reason why Bama, Nebraska, and Texas have 6 thousand kids on their sidelines. Many schools have figured this out. I would not be surprised if we do it since Boom arrived.

Remember, everyone is almost always wrong when it comes to figuring out the scholarship count.

How did Saban sign more than the 25 allowed by the SEC rules? Counting back to last year, grayshirting, and getting kids who did not actually sign anything but still had a ceremony and were in the recruiting rankings.

I'd love to see last year's proof of this. Do you have a link or some other means to prove your assertion.

[DSRrg]

Originally Posted by tilly

In other news:
Water is wet.

LOL

[GatorDoc74]

This kind of skirting the spirit of the law will continue until the NCAA makes some hard and fast changes. Consider the following:

Total schollys offered in any given year is a max of 25, no exceptions, no greyshirts, no countbacks to last year. All athletes get 4 years on scholarship, guaranteed, as long as they don't get arrested. If a kid does get arrested and the school doesn't want him back, the scholarship is lost (unavailable) for a minimum of one year. It makes recruiting good citizens more important.

Hard cap at 85, no team can ever be over 85 at any time for any reason (especially not on signing day). No more medical hardships - those kids get to keep the scholarship, but it still counts towards the 85. If a kid flunks out or leaves school, his scholarship can't be used again until he is 4 years out of high school (unless he graduates early).

Athletes have to petition the NCAA to change programs, and there has to be a valid reason or else the NCAA denies the request. Going elsewhere for more playing time is allowed, but he still has to sit out one year and his scholarship still counts towards the 85 total at school #1 until he graduates or exhausts his eligibility at the new school. A kid can leave the program for any reason whatsoever, but that scholly can't be used again until he is 4 years out of high school. This will discourage "running a kid off" to free up a 'ship.

Yes, I know these would be radical changes and would hurt the Gators in some years, but it's the only way to keep "ethically challenged" coaches from gaming the system. It would mean that coaches would really have to do their homework and only offer kids who can contribute to the program, be good citizens and survive academically. The major programs would still have an advantage, but the playing field would be leveled somewhat and fewer kids would get used and casually tossed aside (or at least it wouldn't happen as much).

If these rules ever go into effect, Saban will probably retire.

[DieAGator]

Originally Posted by gator7_5

Looking the other way? The rule states you can't have over 85 by the time the season starts. Bama isn't breaking any rules. Skirting ethical boundaries? Maybe. These recruits understand what may happen to them if they dont pan out and they still line up to go there.

Still, alot of the butthurt sounds like jealousy because they are winning crystal.

The schedule thing is bs, but its up to an East team to negate that advantage.

Hopefully, our team is sick of it too and changes things the first week of Dec in Atl.

Will be interesting to learn what happened to the players they lose. But this doesn't bother me about Bama unless they mislead recruits. I wouldn't think it's a surprise to their roster since it's not a new approach for Bama. But when I think of the way they dismantled Notre Dame I give them the credit. If that plays a significant role in their success, so be it... Does not seem to cost them commits.

[nawlinsgator]

Originally Posted by DieAGator

Will be interesting to learn what happened to the players they lose. But this doesn't bother me about Bama unless they mislead recruits. I wouldn't think it's a surprise to their roster since it's not a new approach for Bama. But when I think of the way they dismantled Notre Dame I give them the credit. If that plays a significant role in their success, so be it... Does not seem to cost them commits.

That's the beauty about recruiting. You get a fresh batch of suckers to swallow your BS every year. By the time the figure out you're lying, it's too late...they've already signed on the dotted line.

[NoahBeanBizzel]

Originally Posted by Matthanuf06

As long as they aren't lying to the kids then what is the problem? The kids are going to Bama to compete with and against the best, to play for titles, and to be coached by the best (and most). They know if they aren't up to it then they are gone. It's the deal.

We want guys that aren't afraid of competition, same with Bama.

And it's not "winning at all costs" as there is no cost. As far as we know they aren't cheating and aren't lying to kids.

Right, because at least we're not pretending that these are truly "student" athletes. Even though the overwhelming majority of 'Bama's kids will never sniff a down of pro ball, let's not even act like there's something beyond the gridiron. Because academics aren't what SEC football is about. Calipari has figured this out on the hardwood, as well.

I read your entire post, and I like how there was nothing in there pertaining to anything other than football. At least we're now openly admitting that we couldn't care less about these kids pursuing anything other than the best opportunity available on the football field.

[Matthanuf06]

Originally Posted by NoahBeanBizzel

Right, because at least we're not pretending that these are truly "student" athletes. Even though the overwhelming majority of 'Bama's kids will never sniff a down of pro ball, let's not even act like there's something beyond the gridiron. Because academics aren't what SEC football is about. Calipari has figured this out on the hardwood, as well.

I read your entire post, and I like how there was nothing in there pertaining to anything other than football. At least we're now openly admitting that we couldn't care less about these kids pursuing anything other than the best opportunity available on the football field.

Other than some lip service from the NDs and Stanford's of the world no team is recruiting with academics in mind.

If the football player has academics as an extremely high priority, enough to sway his college choice, then good for him. Seriously, that's great.

But these kids going to Bama know the deal, they know Bamas academic standing, and that's what they want.

Why should these kids be forced to go to a school that they do not want to go to because there is a greater chance of being there for 4 years?