For serious Bball fans: what was exposed vs. Missou

[diamondted13]

Originally Posted by gatorrick1

Answering this with strictly my opinion I would say this is more a function of our offense or design of our offense than anything Muphy is doing or not doing. I say this because all good coaches design offenses to get certain player's the ball in certain spots. I am assuming we would see Billy ripping Erik a new one I he on his own decided to just not post up. In fact I think during last night's telecast Billy alluded to our guards getting to three happy.

I tend to agree with you. I just wish we ran some plays to set Murph up in the low block. He's very underrated there. Where has the high/low been this year with our bigs? I don't recall seeing much, if any, this year. Don't you think Murphy/Young could run this effectively?

[akaGatorhoops]

I do not think plays are being ignored, but I do think the design is rather flexible and non-specific. Billy said in his post game that they wanted the ball in Scottie's hands and for him to drive to the basket. Of course, if Scottie feels like he is cut off... he will make a pass. At that point, the receiving player has to make a decision. In this case... and others in the past... the decision was a poor one. I think Billy likes to leave the ball in the hands of his guards in the waning seconds... whether it be at the close of the half or the game. I presume he thinks it minimizes risk of turnover. It does, however, have 4 other players standing around and often ends the way we have become accustomed to seeing --- with a launch from beyond the arc. I too would like to see us approach these scenarios differently, but that is apparently Billy's approach. I had to laugh when prior to the infamous possession, Dykes said something to the effect of "Florida will try to work this ball inside". I said to my dad... "he doesnt watch a lot of florida basketball. one, maybe two players will touch the ball before it is shot. And it wont be going inside".

[regurgigator]

Originally Posted by akaGatorhoops

I had to laugh when prior to the infamous possession, Dykes said something to the effect of "Florida will try to work this ball inside". I said to my dad... "he doesnt watch a lot of florida basketball. one, maybe two players will touch the ball before it is shot. And it wont be going inside".

I wasn't too thrilled with the idea of Young getting the ball when Dykes was saying that. All I could envision was Young going to the FT line. At least he would have had 2 shots for sure, as we were in the double bonus.


I'm not sure that I wouldn't rather have Boynton shooting that three (which wasn't that contested although it was off the dribble) than Young on the foul line with the way he's been shooting them. I'd definitely take the three over Young shooting one-and-one.

[InstiGATOR1]

Well my take on the original post and other comments on the thread:

1. Missouri hit 22.7% of their 3s last night. Unfortunately for UF, they hit two in a row immediately after UF got up by 13 in the second half. In between those 3s was the infamous drive and basket by Rosario where the announcers were praising him while the officials were calling it a charge. I believe these two 3s were off the double big ball screen action you are discribing.

2. Certainly any offense has more trouble against guys quick enough to get up in their grills compared to guys who lay back and let them initiate the offense. I did not think that was as big a contributor last night as against UAR. Boynton drove for a 3 point play even after Rosario did and was called for a charge. Wilbekin maybe should have driven more, but he was faced with a very quick smaller guard last night. Pressey does deserve some due after the flack he took for the game in Gainesville.

3. No Yeguete and no Prather the last 8:42 of the game. Missouri grabbed the last 5 rebounds in the game. UF did not have a rebound after the 3:13 mark in the second half. Heck and that rebound was Young grabbing a rebound and being called for a non-travel. Young and Murphy are just not quick to the ball like Yeguete and Prather.

4. I am with you on this. Donovan I think made a 2 for 1 decision last night. UF got off two decent shots from behind the arc in exchange for 2 free throws by Missouri. Now I am not sure I would do that on the road, that is certainly a reasonable choice in my mind. I have come around a bit on the end of half situation now. I believe that putting the ball in Wilbekin or Boynton's hands and saying get a shot is ok as it makes the chance of a run out turnover just before the half very low. At the end of the game, I too prefer more of a play. Wilbekin driving into the lane might have been the right play last night, but then again he would have been driving on a smaller quick guard.

5. As for the free throw comments in the thread, Young is not going to be a good free throw shooter immediately. He has a nice looking shot, so he might develop into a 70% guy as a pro, but probably not at UF. On the other hand Wilbekin can NOT leave 3 points at the line going 1 for 3 and missing the front end of a 1 and 1. He must get that corrected.

6. Murphy is a clever inside offensive player. On a night he is not hitting 3s, he certainly needs to be posting up inside.

[gatorrick1]

Originally Posted by akaGatorhoops

I do not think plays are being ignored, but I do think the design is rather flexible and non-specific. Billy said in his post game that they wanted the ball in Scottie's hands and for him to drive to the basket. Of course, if Scottie feels like he is cut off... he will make a pass. At that point, the receiving player has to make a decision. In this case... and others in the past... the decision was a poor one. I think Billy likes to leave the ball in the hands of his guards in the waning seconds... whether it be at the close of the half or the game. I presume he thinks it minimizes risk of turnover. It does, however, have 4 other players standing around and often ends the way we have become accustomed to seeing --- with a launch from beyond the arc. I too would like to see us approach these scenarios differently, but that is apparently Billy's approach. I had to laugh when prior to the infamous possession, Dykes said something to the effect of "Florida will try to work this ball inside". I said to my dad... "he doesnt watch a lot of florida basketball. one, maybe two players will touch the ball before it is shot. And it wont be going inside".

You wrote much of what I posted in my op about Billy running loosely designed sets with getting the ball in his best playmakers hands. It is just different than my personal and many other coaches philosophy of in those situations trying to make sure you have specific players getting the ball in specific spots with specific 2nd and even 3rd options. Ofcourse defensively you want the opposite which is forcing the offensive player to catch the ball in uncomfortable spots and you want to take away other top options. I just think a coach should control the potential last possesion of the game more, especially at this level and with these specific players. I can say if I were an opposing coach I would be very happy with the idea of forcing contested three's on a last possesion where the other team trails by 1.

[gatorrick1]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

Well my take on the original post and other comments on the thread:

1. Missouri hit 22.7% of their 3s last night. Unfortunately for UF, they hit two in a row immediately after UF got up by 13 in the second half. In between those 3s was the infamous drive and basket by Rosario where the announcers were praising him while the officials were calling it a charge. I believe these two 3s were off the double big ball screen action you are discribing.

2. Certainly any offense has more trouble against guys quick enough to get up in their grills compared to guys who lay back and let them initiate the offense. I did not think that was as big a contributor last night as against UAR. Boynton drove for a 3 point play even after Rosario did and was called for a charge. Wilbekin maybe should have driven more, but he was faced with a very quick smaller guard last night. Pressey does deserve some due after the flack he took for the game in Gainesville.

3. No Yeguete and no Prather the last 8:42 of the game. Missouri grabbed the last 5 rebounds in the game. UF did not have a rebound after the 3:13 mark in the second half. Heck and that rebound was Young grabbing a rebound and being called for a non-travel. Young and Murphy are just not quick to the ball like Yeguete and Prather.

4. I am with you on this. Donovan I think made a 2 for 1 decision last night. UF got off two decent shots from behind the arc in exchange for 2 free throws by Missouri. Now I am not sure I would do that on the road, that is certainly a reasonable choice in my mind. I have come around a bit on the end of half situation now. I believe that putting the ball in Wilbekin or Boynton's hands and saying get a shot is ok as it makes the chance of a run out turnover just before the half very low. At the end of the game, I too prefer more of a play. Wilbekin driving into the lane might have been the right play last night, but then again he would have been driving on a smaller quick guard.

5. As for the free throw comments in the thread, Young is not going to be a good free throw shooter immediately. He has a nice looking shot, so he might develop into a 70% guy as a pro, but probably not at UF. On the other hand Wilbekin can NOT leave 3 points at the line going 1 for 3 and missing the front end of a 1 and 1. He must get that corrected.

6. Murphy is a clever inside offensive player. On a night he is not hitting 3s, he certainly needs to be posting up inside.

1. I am fairly certain they got more than just two threes out of their double on ball screen action.
2. Driving as I mentioned is just one way to attack pressure D, cuts and attacking inside are others.
3. No WY didn't just impact rebounding, there was more than one possesion where Bowers had a big basket by just shooting over CP. WY would have at least made these tougher shots.

[InstiGATOR1]

Originally Posted by gatorrick1

1. I am fairly certain they got more than just two threes out of their double on ball screen action.
2. Driving as I mentioned is just one way to attack pressure D, cuts and attacking inside are others.
3. No WY didn't just impact rebounding, there was more than one possesion where Bowers had a big basket by just shooting over CP. WY would have at least made these tougher shots.

I was not trying to argue that those two 3s were all the got. I was just pointing out that that was the turning point and I think it was off the action you described. I do agree Yeguete at 240 lbs would have bothered Bowers particularly on the shot that made it 61-60.

[tommyuf21]

Yes, Yeguette at a legit 6'7" 230+ is more than big enough and defensively skilled to have kept Bowers in check.

[Ahab]

Originally Posted by akaGatorhoops

I do not think plays are being ignored, but I do think the design is rather flexible and non-specific. Billy said in his post game that they wanted the ball in Scottie's hands and for him to drive to the basket. Of course, if Scottie feels like he is cut off... he will make a pass. At that point, the receiving player has to make a decision. In this case... and others in the past... the decision was a poor one. I think Billy likes to leave the ball in the hands of his guards in the waning seconds... whether it be at the close of the half or the game. I presume he thinks it minimizes risk of turnover. It does, however, have 4 other players standing around and often ends the way we have become accustomed to seeing --- with a launch from beyond the arc. I too would like to see us approach these scenarios differently, but that is apparently Billy's approach. I had to laugh when prior to the infamous possession, Dykes said something to the effect of "Florida will try to work this ball inside". I said to my dad... "he doesnt watch a lot of florida basketball. one, maybe two players will touch the ball before it is shot. And it wont be going inside".

It's fine if the play begins with Scotty driving but if that doesn't work, then there should be a second action. Instead it looks like everyone standing around the 3 point line and then shooting if they get the pass.

[Ahab]

Originally Posted by diamondted13

I tend to agree with you. I just wish we ran some plays to set Murph up in the low block. He's very underrated there. Where has the high/low been this year with our bigs? I don't recall seeing much, if any, this year. Don't you think Murphy/Young could run this effectively?

I'd rather go inside to Murphy in crunch time than Young mainly due to FT issues. Also, didn't Bowers have 4 fouls for the last several minutes? We should be going straight at him and trying to get him out of the game.

[gatorrick1]

Originally Posted by InstiGATOR1

I was not trying to argue that those two 3s were all the got. I was just pointing out that that was the turning point and I think it was off the action you described. I do agree Yeguete at 240 lbs would have bothered Bowers particularly on the shot that made it 61-60.

I didn't mean for my post to come across that you were arguing my point. I was just quickly trying to address a few of your points. I really believe with practice time we will do a better job against double screens on the ball. Good lesson to learn and better now then in the tourney.

[BEH]

Folks, take it from the hated BEH: There is not a lot wrong with this Florida team. Geeze, they lost to Missouri on the road.

Who predicted a sweep of the SEC?

Have you ever heard of a night when the home team is simply better?

[108]

not having a true PG since Green hasn't helped, and it has continually shown the last few years in these types of games....

no ball general to take control

Kenny can't drive to the hoop on his own for the life of him, and Scotty obviously wasn't confident enough in those waning moments to do it himself...

[West_End_Gator]

Originally Posted by BEH

Folks, take it from the hated BEH: There is not a lot wrong with this Florida team. Geeze, they lost to Missouri on the road.

Who predicted a sweep of the SEC?

Have you ever heard of a night when the home team is simply better?

Ah, but that's the whole thing, the home team was not simply better. Arizona was not simply better, either, nor was Louisville last year nor was Butler the year before. There is a pattern of losing close games we should win that is disturbing. They aren't evening out in some sort of 50/50 pattern, and we're trying to figure out why.

[ufgator4ever]

Billy's best teams have had at least three quality bigs, usually with a 4th to give rest/help in foul trouble situations. This year we have three, but one is injured. And even healthy he isn't a pure big.
This team will live and die with its outside shots, which doesn't seem like a good formula for going far in the tourney.

[bullish]

No goto guy that is consistent. We haven't had one since Chandler in his senior season. The guard play last night wasn't great. Lack of depth, due to recruiting misses, especially in the bigs is a contributing factor. Billy's short bench will always be to me, a weakness. Developing depth in these longer and longer basketball seasons, is paramount. Last night we were hurt with a short bench. He seems to shorten his line-up on the road. Hopefully with better depth next year, he will stretch his bench.

[tommyuf21]

We have enough guards that can shoot. I think we have at least two, maybe three potential go to guys in Rosario, Murphy and possibly Frazier.

At least Rosario got the last shot, but it shouldn't have come to that.

It will be nice next season to have a terrific talent that can create off the dribble. I agree that we do not have that this year.

[benheb]

Great post. My low basketball IQ was impressed with your description of our play and our players and coach. Even a dumb ass like me can see the beauty of our play when we are crushing opponents like a well oiled machine.

I really feel like this loss was a good thing for this team. They will address the issues you mentioned and when WY comes back they will be stronger and better. I can't be too upset about last night because I somehow could see what you eloquently described. I would still put my money on the gators.

[tommyuf21]

Originally Posted by benheb

Great post. My low basketball IQ was impressed with your description of our play and our players and coach. Even a dumb ass like me can see the beauty of our play when we are crushing opponents like a well oiled machine.

I really feel like this loss was a good thing for this team. They will address the issues you mentioned and when WY comes back they will be stronger and better. I can't be too upset about last night because I somehow could see what you eloquently described. I would still put my money on the gators.

Too many people treat this sport like football, hence the hysteria over losses.

I don't mind a few losses in the regular season, as long as you don't wind up in a play in game or as an 11 seed and have to face a one on the first weekend. Still, there are many examples of teams that had multiple losses and got hot at the right time; such as last year when we got to the Elite 8 after closing the season horribly or UCONN season a few years ago.

I think a lot of fans are really preoccupied with national perception and what Lunardi, Katz and the other talking heads are saying about us. So, when we lose, they diss us and everyone gets in a tizzy. I say let them diss us.

It's not like we need their votes to get into the title game. We either win our way there or we don't.