Boyton

[canadagator2]

I disagree HallGator. I've seen many posts after wins in basketball and football that have many more posts then this. However, when one hits a topic that holds water they seem to carry on for awhile. This is only a negative because it rears its ugly head again and again. This team will not go far doing the same thing over and over when it does not work.

[BLING]

Originally Posted by gatorich

I would have liked to have seen a better shot but am not going to fault a senior for wanting the ball in his hands with the game on the line. Give it a rest.

Overall Kenny B *HAS* been taking better shot selections his last two years, than his 1st two years where he was basically a wild man shooting 3's. Now, with an occasional blip, his shots usually are in rhythm of the offense - and you can see him "passing up" on some shots that in his 1st two years without doubt he would have launched. But instead, now he gives up the extra pass.

That being said, that was still a very poor shot selection last night. I have no problem at all with KB, as a senior, wanting to take the game in his hands. I just always, always, hate the PULL UP 3, when there is time on the clock and you are ONLY DOWN 1 POINT. It is a very low % play in that game situation. I think after about the 2 minute mark, it's crunch time and you simply cannot afford to take shots like that.

I don't agree with people calling out KB as "the death of this team", but certainly there are alot of valid points that in late game situations this team needs to do alot better. There needs to be a total emphasis on getting HIGH PERCENTAGE SHOTS in those situations- don't settle for a jumper. As I pointed out in another thread, it wasn't just KB settling for jumper. Wilbekin settled for several bad shots as well, and even the 3 pointer he made I did not like that shot at all when it went up.

[ApexNC]

This is probably the most ridiculous thread I've seen on this board. Kenny has busted his ass for his coach, his team and his university for almost four years now. He is a tireless worker and a great defender. He's never been in the headlines for off the court problems. He is NOT the reason we haven't made the final four the last two years. He IS one of the main reasons we made the Elite Eight.

[gportgator]

Apex, I agree.

[STR8OUTDASWAMP1]

A lot of not so bright people on this thread. Why wouldn't you have the ball in the hands of your SENIOR guard in that situation?

[REM08]

Originally Posted by STR8OUTDASWAMP1

A lot of not so bright people on this thread. Why wouldn't you have the ball in the hands of your SENIOR guard in that situation?

Thats not a bad rule of thumb you mention here, unless of course, the senior guard doesn't actually give the team the best chance of success.

I think some of you are being a LITTLE too sensitive to what you're perceiving as criticism. Keep in mind, basketball criticism of how a player is playing doesn't have anything to do with critiquing the character or personality of the actual human being. We connect the two too often.

Its VERY possible that a guy who is responsible for much of his team's success is ALSO, at times, somewhat responsible for a moment that did not translate to team success.

In another thread, I posted quotes from Billy and from Kenny, after the game, that show just how far apart they were on their perspective of Kenny's 3 pointer.

[gatorich]

Originally Posted by Matthanuf06

In any close game you can pick and choose plays where the game would have been tilted in your favor. If you really wanted to you could find multiple plays by each starter.

Yet the fact remains we lose every single close game. It isn't just Walker, KB, free throws, refs, etc. it's an all of the above random combination of it in those close games.

The thing is, don't you think other top teams face adversity? Don't you think they have games where their shot isn't falling, the other team is hot, the refs are one sided, etc? Of course they do. We do not have a monopoly on imperfect games.

The one constant is our choking at the end of games. The statistics show if two teams are equal each team should win 50% of close games. If your team is better than the opposition you should win more than that, say 65%. That's where we should fall. Yet we don't. We fall to 0%, because the team gets substantially worse as the clock ticks and the game remains tight.

We need to solve that problem, not isolated problems.

The problem is that we never win them.

Wow, Elete Eight the last two years....15? years with 20 wins or more....I guess I didn't realized we sucked so bad.

[wci347]

Hopefully Boynton will be able to produce in the tournament where he- along with Murphy, Rosario, Young, Wilberkin, Prather and Yeguete,- will have a major advantage over every other team in the tournament.

Statistically, Fraizer and Boynton's numbers are not even close, and we probably win two of the four games we lost with Fraizer only taking a percentage of Boynton's missed shots (6-28 from 3 in the four losses). But come tournament time there will be an acute advantage to us having 7 of our 8 players with one year tournament experience and 4 of our 8 with two years tournament experience.

We need to encourage him as much as possible and get his mind ready for the tournament.

[UFish]

As far as shot selection and overall decision making, that was one of the worst offensive games I've seen Boynton play. So to say he will be the death of this team based on last night would be a strong exaggeration in my opinion.

He took two really dumb shots down the stretch and surely he's partial to blame for the loss but we were also outrebounded, shot poorly at the foul line (including missing at least two front ends of one and ones), and we took way too many threes for a road game against a team as talented as Missouri.

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by canadagator2

Just the fact this post is on its 4th page tells you something is not right. I don't think anyone has said Kenny is not a good player and he hasn't put in the effort to be successful. What has been said is he makes bad decisions at the end of halves and games. Would anyone really disagree with that? If you were the coach and you designed a play which wasn't carried out, what would you do with said player? This is something that has gone on for some time now. We all want a team that plays to their ability and when things don't go according to plan we get upset. The fact that he keeps making the same decisions over and over is worrisome.

Again. . . there is a part of this that you seem to be ignoring.
The play was deisgned for Scottie to drive the ball. For whatever reason, he passed it to Kenny, who admittedly took a poor shot. But you are failing to acknowledge that there is likely other shared blame. Why did Scottie pass and not drive the ball as directed? Was it because another player on the floor did not do his job... ie: clear out or set a needed screen? Did he receive the inbound pass in the wrong spot? Did he simply not want to take that last shot?
The bottomline is, the designed play blew up.... for any number of reasons. Yet, you are only finding blame with the guy who ended up with the ball and threw it at the hoop.
I think there is a fair amount of responsibility that Coach Donovan will shoulder. If this is a reoccurring scenario.... whether it be Kenny, Erv, Roberson or others taking a poor final shot.... he needs to figure out why his plays are either being ignored or not capable of being executed.

[precboom]

Originally Posted by akaGatorhoops

Again. . . there is a part of this that you seem to be ignoring.
The play was deisgned for Scottie to drive the ball. For whatever reason, he passed it to Kenny, who admittedly took a poor shot. But you are failing to acknowledge that there is likely other shared blame. Why did Scottie pass and not drive the ball as directed? Was it because another player on the floor did not do his job... ie: clear out or set a needed screen? Did he receive the inbound pass in the wrong spot? Did he simply not want to take that last shot?
The bottomline is, the designed play blew up.... for any number of reasons. Yet, you are only finding blame with the guy who ended up with the ball and threw it at the hoop.
I think there is a fair amount of responsibility that Coach Donovan will shoulder. If this is a reoccurring scenario.... whether it be Kenny, Erv, Roberson or others taking a poor final shot.... he needs to figure out why his plays are either being ignored or not capable of being executed.

This IS a recurring scenario. A few things to consider:

1) Take a look at the tape, Scotty dished it to KB with give or take 10 seconds left. Scotty immediately puts his hands up to receive what he thought would be a return pass. Check it out, the tape doesn't lie.

2) When you are down by one point with eight seconds left, why would you settle for an off-balance 3? There was plenty of time to drive. These are the poor decisions KB has been making in crunch time for most of his career.

3) Unless there was an afternoon presser I didn't hear about, KB didn't admit he took a poor shot, in fact he said just the opposite. KB's comment and what Billy said couldn't be further apart.

4) I have no problem with KB taking the last shot, so long as it makes sense. To me, the shot selection is no different than if we would have been down by three with eight seconds left and he drove to the rim. With that little time left: You don't go for two when you need three. You don't go for three when you need one to tie or two to win.

[TampaGatorFan]

We missed 23 3-pointers last night...TWENTY THREE...as well as six FTs, including three front ends of 1+1s, which means we actually left 9 points at the stripe.

Poor shooting did us in last night. This game should have been a 15-20 point win for us.

[precboom]

Originally Posted by TampaGatorFan

We missed 23 3-pointers last night...TWENTY THREE...as well as six FTs, including three front ends of 1+1s, which means we actually left 9 points at the stripe.

Poor shooting did us in last night. This game should have been a 15-20 point win for us.

Even more of a reason to take the appropriate shot (i.e. a three or a two) when it's crunch time.

[REM08]

Originally Posted by precboom

This IS a recurring scenario. A few things to consider:

1) Take a look at the tape, Scotty dished it to KB with give or take 10 seconds left. Scotty immediately puts his hands up to receive what he thought would be a return pass. Check it out, the tape doesn't lie.

2) When you are down by one point with eight seconds left, why would you settle for an off-balance 3? There was plenty of time to drive. These are the poor decisions KB has been making in crunch time for most of his career.

3) Unless there was an afternoon presser I didn't hear about, KB didn't admit he took a poor shot, in fact he said just the opposite. KB's comment and what Billy said couldn't be further apart.

4) I have no problem with KB taking the last shot, so long as it makes sense. To me, the shot selection is no different than if we would have been down by three with eight seconds left and he drove to the rim. With that little time left: You don't go for two when you need three. You don't go for three when you need one to tie or two to win.

IMO, these are 4 good points.

[patsyruth2008]

Originally Posted by ApexNC

This is probably the most ridiculous thread I've seen on this board. Kenny has busted his ass for his coach, his team and his university for almost four years now. He is a tireless worker and a great defender. He's never been in the headlines for off the court problems. He is NOT the reason we haven't made the final four the last two years. He IS one of the main reasons we made the Elite Eight.

Apex;

I agree 110%, however I will say that it is my opinion that next year's team will miss Mike Rosario and Eric Murphy WAY more than Kenny and I NEVER thought I would say (or type) something like that.

[HALLGATOR]

Originally Posted by akaGatorhoops

Again. . . there is a part of this that you seem to be ignoring.
The play was deisgned for Scottie to drive the ball. For whatever reason, he passed it to Kenny, who admittedly took a poor shot. But you are failing to acknowledge that there is likely other shared blame. Why did Scottie pass and not drive the ball as directed? Was it because another player on the floor did not do his job... ie: clear out or set a needed screen? Did he receive the inbound pass in the wrong spot? Did he simply not want to take that last shot?
The bottomline is, the designed play blew up.... for any number of reasons. Yet, you are only finding blame with the guy who ended up with the ball and threw it at the hoop.
I think there is a fair amount of responsibility that Coach Donovan will shoulder. If this is a reoccurring scenario.... whether it be Kenny, Erv, Roberson or others taking a poor final shot.... he needs to figure out why his plays are either being ignored or not capable of being executed.

It seems what you have been saying is falling on deaf ears. Coach was not pleased with the way things turned out because it was not the way the play was drawn up. In the end he is still the coach and he must deal with the reasons why but Billy sure didn't design the play that was run.

[HALLGATOR]

Originally Posted by canadagator2

I disagree HallGator. I've seen many posts after wins in basketball and football that have many more posts then this. However, when one hits a topic that holds water they seem to carry on for awhile. This is only a negative because it rears its ugly head again and again. This team will not go far doing the same thing over and over when it does not work.

You are welcome to disagree all you want to but what I wrote was fact.

[akaGatorhoops]

Originally Posted by precboom

This IS a recurring scenario. A few things to consider:

1) Take a look at the tape, Scotty dished it to KB with give or take 10 seconds left. Scotty immediately puts his hands up to receive what he thought would be a return pass. Check it out, the tape doesn't lie.

2) When you are down by one point with eight seconds left, why would you settle for an off-balance 3? There was plenty of time to drive. These are the poor decisions KB has been making in crunch time for most of his career.

3) Unless there was an afternoon presser I didn't hear about, KB didn't admit he took a poor shot, in fact he said just the opposite. KB's comment and what Billy said couldn't be further apart.

4) I have no problem with KB taking the last shot, so long as it makes sense. To me, the shot selection is no different than if we would have been down by three with eight seconds left and he drove to the rim. With that little time left: You don't go for two when you need three. You don't go for three when you need one to tie or two to win.

I am not sure this contradicts anything I have said. I acknowledged it as a poor shot. I also said it is a reoccurring scenario... And one the proceeds Boynton. You could plug in the names "Roberson" or "Walker" or several others and this thread would be a recreation of years past. As I said... If Billy's instructions are being ignored, he needs to find out why. If he is affording too much player freedom in the scenarios, perhaps that needs to changed
But yeah, I would not disagree with any of your 4 points.

[Jaggator]

Originally Posted by HALLGATOR

I've learned a long time ago that more posters show up after a loss than after a win during the course of the season. Multiple pages show little other than a propensity for people to focus more on the negative than on the positive.

Agreed! That's because they use message boards to release pent up feelings of frustration rather than beating their dog. In general people have a propensity to say and do stupid things when it doesn't go the way of their liking.

[canadagator2]

It's wonderful we are having a discussion and people feel passionate about basketball. Wether you agree one way or the other at least people feel comfortable to voice an opinion on this board. I read these boards everyday and some times it amazes me just how few threads there are discussing the aspects of the game. Maybe I should particpate more The fact of the matter is with everything everyone else has stated, Kenny continues to take "bad" shots in crunch time and usually costs us the game. For what ever reason, this is, a reoccurring theme. I don't have the answer, however, I sure hope Billy and the boys figure it out soon.