Where does SW rank among the other PGs in the Billy D era?

[WESGATORS]

It wasn't just the Kentucky game. He put in over 30 against Texas earlier that season; he had 8 3's against Auburn (O'DOME record by a GATOR, tied for 2nd overall); he had 17 assists in a game against Duquesne (GATOR record); he had 7 steals in a game against Mississippi State (O'DOME record, tied with several including Nelson). And that's just what the stats remind us of. He was incredibly entertaining to watch because of how talented he was.

The Kentucky game was special because that came at a time when they were just completely dominating the series. From March 2nd, 1994 to January 2nd, 1999 FLORIDA lost 12 games (out of 13) to Kentucky by an average of 20 points per game. The trip to Kentucky in 1997, FLORIDA lost by 29 points. The trip to Kentucky in 1999, FLORIDA lost by 35 points. That one game in Lexington in 1998 was the lone bright spot in a long stretch of futility against them snapping a 10-game losing streak. That game was enormous.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[tommyuf21]

One wonders what we would have done in 1997-98 if JWill had played in the entire season. We probably would have still gone to the NIT, but I guarantee you that we would have done better than the 1-6 record we had after he was kicked off the team. We were 13-9 when he left.

We finished 14-15 with a first round loss to G-town in the NIT, which was Billy's last losing season.

Without Williams, we closed the regular season with a 4 game losing streak with two of the those losses by 4 points. UK and Vandy both beat us by double digits. We did win the first round of the SEC tourney against Auburn, but lost the next night to South Carolina.

I think its reasonable to expect that we would have finished the regular season 15-11, had a better than 50/50 shot of getting another win in the SEC tourney and went further in the NIT.

Oh well, I guess that's the way it goes. It's not like Billy had any choice.

[regurgigator]

Originally Posted by tommyuf21

Certainly, I don't "know" the reason. However, my opinion, based on everything that took place those two years is that he didn't wish to deal with the pressure of being the leader. The criticism of him by his head coach is on the record and really "kind" in my opinion. If you look at how his career played out here, especially during the end of the final year, it's not hard to believe that he wanted out of the program.

I will always feel that he ran away from UF and if he stayed and got mentally tough, he would have become a much better player and would be making a good living in the real league as opposed to being basically a substitute in Europe.

Are you talking about the criticism of Calathes that Donovan discussed after the one game in which Calathes was benched? Because I don't remember any other criticism leveled at Calathes. He was certainly not criticized or benched as many times as Donovan has criticized or benched Wilbekin or Rosario, for example.

And, we're talking about a player (Calthes) that Donovan hardly ever took out of the games (other than the benching) because our offense would generally grind to a halt whenever Calathes went out of the game and Donovan would usually be sending him back in the game within a minute of taking him out. I used to laugh at how short Calathes' trips to the bench would generally be.

[madgator]

Originally Posted by UFco2001

I've always been surprised with how much people weight the JW 1998 UK game in their memories and how little they remember of 4 years of Justin Hamilton.

Because that game was possibly the best individual game performance by any player ever in an orange and blue uniform

and when you consider how bad his surrounding cast was....makes it all the more impressive

[tommyuf21]

Originally Posted by regurgigator

Are you talking about the criticism of Calathes that Donovan discussed after the one game in which Calathes was benched? Because I don't remember any other criticism leveled at Calathes. He was certainly not criticized or benched as many times as Donovan has criticized or benched Wilbekin or Rosario, for example.

And, we're talking about a player (Calthes) that Donovan hardly ever took out of the games (other than the benching) because our offense would generally grind to a halt whenever Calathes went out of the game and Donovan would usually be sending him back in the game within a minute of taking him out. I used to laugh at how short Calathes' trips to the bench would generally be.

Not long after that benching, Calathes left. That was near the end of his sophomore season.

I guess the comparison you might be looking for is how Rosario and Wilbekin handled their benching. If Rosario took last year's criticism like Calathes took his, he would have turned pro and left to play in Europe or Puerto Rico. He remained because he knew his coach was right and wanted to get better.

[regurgigator]

Originally Posted by tommyuf21

Not long after that benching, Calathes left. That was near the end of his sophomore season.

I guess the comparison you might be looking for is how Rosario and Wilbekin handled their benching. If Rosario took last year's criticism like Calathes took his, he would have turned pro and left to play in Europe or Puerto Rico. He remained because he knew his coach was right and wanted to get better.

Nothing against you, but I'm seldom interested in this kind of speculation (which is very common on here).

As far as I know, Calathes left because he had a great opportunity elsewhere. Period.

If there's some non-speculative info that Nick left to get away from Donovan (or just that it was one of the reasons), I'd be glad to hear it. But absent insider knowledge to that effect, I'll just take Calathes et al. at their word.

[WESGATORS]

Something was weird about Nick's contract, but weird in a way that made it understandable as to why he would pursue it vs. how he was perceived to be as an NBA player. As long as nobody pulls a Drejer, I'm happy for them being successful in their professional careers. Wonder whatever happened to that guy.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

[tommyuf21]

Originally Posted by regurgigator

Nothing against you, but I'm seldom interested in this kind of speculation (which is very common on here).

As far as I know, Calathes left because he had a great opportunity elsewhere. Period.

If there's some non-speculative info that Nick left to get away from Donovan (or just that it was one of the reasons), I'd be glad to hear it. But absent insider knowledge to that effect, I'll just take Calathes et al. at their word.

Nothing personal here either, just agreeing to disagree.

I don't like the guy, how he carried himself or how he left UF. That feeling is very rare and perhaps unjustified in this case, but its how I feel. The only thing that will ever change that will be some kind of act of gratitude out of him towards Billy, that I doubt ever occurs.

[regurgigator]

Originally Posted by WESGATORS

Something was weird about Nick's contract, but weird in a way that made it understandable as to why he would pursue it vs. how he was perceived to be as an NBA player. As long as nobody pulls a Drejer, I'm happy for them being successful in their professional careers. Wonder whatever happened to that guy.

Go GATORS!
,WESGATORS

Last I heard (several years ago), Drejer was hobbled somehow (I think they related it to the injury/infection he had here) and retired from basketball.

[demosthenes]

Drejer and Tishman, two guys I'd love to know what life brought them after leaving Florida.

[GatorRade]

Originally Posted by MaceoP

SW is the best pg we've had since taurean. Nick c, IMO, was all flash Some here were enamored with all the fancy stuff by nick and overlooked the many obvious shortcomings. I would take Scottie over nick anyday. One poster on this thread had said a while ago that nick was the best pg he'd ever seen I don't get the nick c love

I think you are really really underselling Calathes here. Stats don't necessarily tell the whole story but just get a look at Nick's four year projected ranks:

Stat...............Number......4 year projected.......All time UF rank projected
Points..............1170................2340...... ...............1st
Rebounds..........379..................758........ ..............Top 20? (near Udonis Haslem)
Assists.............452..................904...... ................1st (by 400 assists!)
Steals..............126..................252...... ................1st

Not to mention that he was a career 38% 3PT shooter, had a 2:1 assist to turnover ratio, registered two of Florida's only three triple doubles, and hit several game winning plays for UF (e.g. UK 08', USC 08', NCSU 09', Auburn 09', USC 09'). From Gatorzone:

One of the top play-making guards in the nation, he ranked in the top 10 in nine of 13 possible categories during SEC play…A First Team All-SEC player in 2009, he was the only player in the nation to average better than 15.0 points, 5.0 rebounds and 6.0 assists per game…Has broken the UF records for assists and assists per game in each of his first two years, totaling 221 as a freshman (6.1 apg) and 231 (6.4 apg) as a sophomore

Maybe he isn't the best PG we've ever seen. Maybe he wasn't as good as Taurean Green. Maybe he isn't even as good as Scottie. Maybe. But to call this guy "all flash" and infer that he is a mediocre player is one of the counterfactual statements that we've ever had on this board.

[regurgigator]

Well done, GatorRade!

I sometimes forget that Nick's stats were that incredible!

But, I'm not surprised that he was involved in so many game-winning plays. I've always been amazed at how Nick's clutch performances seem to have been wiped from the memories of most Gator fans who apparently only remember the last few games when it looked to me like Nick just got worn out from trying to carry a somewhat mediocre team for 2 years.

IMO, too many Gator fans will never forgive Nick for playing on teams that simply weren't good enough to make the NCAA Tourney. Those teams fell short of fans' raised expectations and Nick, as the leader and best player on those teams, was the easy target of their ire.

[tommyuf21]

Originally Posted by regurgigator

IMO, too many Gator fans will never forgive Nick for playing on teams that simply weren't good enough to make the NCAA Tourney. Those teams fell short of fans' raised expectations and Nick, as the leader and best player on those teams, was the easy target of their ire.

The way he left, obviously not NBA ready and looking to getting away from UF, is what bothers most of us.

If he had stayed another year, and helped us in our return to the tourney, he would be remembered a better light. I have always viewed him as someone who didn't want to deal with expectations and wanted to jump off what he probably thought was a sinking ship.

You can understand Speights leaving, because of his draft status and all, but Nick was not projected to be a high pick and to date has never attempted to play in the league.

[regurgigator]

Originally Posted by tommyuf21

The way he left, (first) obviously not NBA ready and (second) looking to getting away from UF, is what bothers most of us.

Well, the second comment is, again, just speculation as far as I know; and the first comment is hardly obvious, since Nick was considered worthy of a draft choice (despite already being fairly certain he was going to Greece) but chose not to try the NBA (although I've always said I'm not sure Nick's game would translate to the NBA).

But, the first comment is not really relevant to me. I have never criticized any Gator football or basketball player for going pro early (although I have praised some for staying). My view is that it's an entirely personal decision and there is no absolute wrong or right to whatever decision they make. (The only error is in making the decision based on faulty information. So, I hope they avoid that.) As much as it pains me to see some players leave early, I pull for every last one of them on the pro level.

[GatorRade]

Originally Posted by regurgigator

Well, the second comment is, again, just speculation as far as I know; and the first comment is hardly obvious, since Nick was considered worthy of a draft choice (despite already being fairly certain he was going to Greece) but chose not to try the NBA (although I've always said I'm not sure Nick's game would translate to the NBA).

But, the first comment is not really relevant to me. I have never criticized any Gator football or basketball player for going pro early (although I have praised some for staying). My view is that it's an entirely personal decision and there is no absolute wrong or right to whatever decision they make. (The only error is in making the decision based on faulty information. So, I hope they avoid that.) As much as it pains me to see some players leave early, I pull for every last one of them on the pro level.

This reminds me of the Urban Meyer fight on the football boards. We recruited two very productive members of our athletic program, but because of the conditions of their departure neither seems to have a very good reputation here anymore. However, if anyone told us in advance, "You will get two BCS titles in four years, but the coach will leave for OSU later" or "You will get two years of 15-5-6 per game but then the player will leave for Europe", we would have gladly accepted. But since these departures only developed after the production, we are left with a bad taste in our mouths, despite the benefits. Strange bit of psychology here.

[keypox]

at least top 100

[NorthCaptivaGator]

Last night was easily Scotty's worst game as a starter, dribbled way too much and too many turnovers, Needs to play stronger on the offensive end on the road,

[bullish]

Scottie when he goes in the middle of the lane, he kind of lopes around. It allows the defense time to get in place and force him to get rid of it. If he would make his mind to cut to the middle, do it quick, fast and decisive, the result would be people out of place, fouling or sometimes even a opening. His shooting in the first half is the reason Kasey Hill will start from day one. I know Scottie plays a great defensive game but it is the probably the reason he can't find the basket when shooting. If he could score consistently, drive it in the middle quicker and make 90% of his Ft's, he would be all american. I have been hoping his offensive game would keep improving, last night it was dismal. He did make a three late, but by this time the boys from Missouri had the game in control. Pressy 10 assists, 6 rebs, 2 steals, nine pts and drove the lane like a pg should, fast and in control.

[GatorsGators]

Originally Posted by bullish

Scottie when he goes in the middle of the lane, he kind of lopes around. It allows the defense time to get in place and force him to get rid of it. If he would make his mind to cut to the middle, do it quick, fast and decisive, the result would be people out of place, fouling or sometimes even a opening. His shooting in the first half is the reason Kasey Hill will start from day one. I know Scottie plays a great defensive game but it is the probably the reason he can't find the basket when shooting. If he could score consistently, drive it in the middle quicker and make 90% of his Ft's, he would be all american. I have been hoping his offensive game would keep improving, last night it was dismal. He did make a three late, but by this time the boys from Missouri had the game in control. Pressy 10 assists, 6 rebs, 2 steals, nine pts and drove the lane like a pg should, fast and in control.

If you think that Hill will jump Wilbekin in the rotation because of his shooting than you've most likely never seen Hill play.

And Missouri had the game in control?! That three put us up by one.

[regurgigator]

Originally Posted by bullish

Scottie when he goes in the middle of the lane, he kind of lopes around. It allows the defense time to get in place and force him to get rid of it. If he would make his mind to cut to the middle, do it quick, fast and decisive, the result would be people out of place, fouling or sometimes even a opening. His shooting in the first half is the reason Kasey Hill will start from day one. I know Scottie plays a great defensive game but it is the probably the reason he can't find the basket when shooting. If he could score consistently, drive it in the middle quicker and make 90% of his Ft's, he would be all american. I have been hoping his offensive game would keep improving, last night it was dismal. He did make a three late, but by this time the boys from Missouri had the game in control. Pressy 10 assists, 6 rebs, 2 steals, nine pts and drove the lane like a pg should, fast and in control.

Pressey is a unique talent who sees the whole floor and only needs the glimmer of an angle to make a great pass. Wilbekin creates better passing angles by holding the ball longer (sometimes) until the help defense fully commits to coming to him, and he needs that because he's not as gifted a passer IMHO.