Floridians only 38% religious

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by mfpardnor2

I consider myself highly Spirtual with a distrust of "Organized Religion"

I'm an advocate of disorganized religion myself.

[Gator515151]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

I'm an advocate of disorganized religion myself.

Does that mean you drink religiously?

[Gatormb]

Originally Posted by bakaduin

I'm curious to see where religion will be in say 50 years. I'm guessing a shrinking minority.

In the US I agree. But Christianity is exploding in South America, Africa and Asia. And as Rev pointed out, those live their faith. Good Lord, some could (do) die for it!

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by Gator515151

Does that mean you drink religiously?

For starters, yes.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by Gatormb

In the US I agree. But Christianity is exploding in South America, Africa and Asia. And as Rev pointed out, those live their faith. Good Lord, some could (do) die for it!

I chuckle when folks talk about the demise of Christianity, for just the reasons you've mentioned. The world is becoming more and more Christian.

[cstgator]

It might be true that religion is exploding in such places as Africa, South America and Asia. A lot of those places are also very poor with vulnerabilities to such philosophies. Think it's safe to say that a lot of factors to include per capita income, disease, etc have much to do with whether people are religious.

Look up the percentage of people who are agnostic or atheist in first world countries. The majority have rejected religion.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by cstgator

It might be true that religion is exploding in such places as Africa, South America and Asia. A lot of those places are also very poor with vulnerabilities to such philosophies. Think it's safe to say that a lot of factors to include per capita income, disease, etc have much to do with whether people are religious.

Look up the percentage of people who are agnostic or atheist in first world countries. The majority have rejected religion.

Your contempt is duly-noted ("vulnerabilities to such philosophies"). Aside from that, you're way off base. Last I checked, the US is a First World country. The majority still consider themselves Christians (whether they are or not is not my concern) and atheists still constitute a tiny minority.

Meanwhile, in Asia, rich and poor alike, educated and non-educated alike, are fairly rushing to Christianity.

[cstgator]

Back it up. From what I've seen, it's the exact opposite. Almost all Japanese people have moved on from religion.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by cstgator

Back it up. From what I've seen, it's the exact opposite. Almost all Japanese people have moved on from religion.

R-i-g-h-t, they've moved on (from never being a Christian nation)to a syncretistic mish-mash of Christian weddings + obligatory Shinto shrine visits + Santa Claus + obsession with American idiot culture + women wearing diapers in the workplace so they don't have to get up and go to the bathroom.

Oh, if we could only aspire to the sophistication of the Japanese.

[bakaduin]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

Your contempt is duly-noted ("vulnerabilities to such philosophies"). Aside from that, you're way off base. Last I checked, the US is a First World country. The majority still consider themselves Christians (whether they are or not is not my concern) and atheists still constitute a tiny minority.

Meanwhile, in Asia, rich and poor alike, educated and non-educated alike, are fairly rushing to Christianity.

I think your facts are a bit off. This year, for the first time in US history, Protestants were not the majority religion and fell to 48%. 20% of people claim no religion. This breaks down to 6% who claim atheism and 14% who say they have no religious affiliation.

Christianity is on the decline in the U.S. The more people grasp science the more organized religion will decline.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by bakaduin

I think your facts are a bit off. This year, for the first time in US history, Protestants were not the majority religion and fell to 48%. 20% of people claim no religion. This breaks down to 6% who claim atheism and 14% who say they have no religious affiliation.

Christianity is on the decline in the U.S. The more people grasp science the more organized religion will decline.

You folks seem desperate. Last I checked, Catholics are Christians too.

Strange that the people we commonly consider the founders of modern science didn't get that they were obliged to discard the 'baggage' of religious belief.

[Dreamliner]

Estimates of Christians worldwide is 2-3 billion. That's roughly equivalent to the entire population of the world in 1950. And globally, Christianity is growing at an astonishing rate.

Sounds like we need to get the science out, especially to all those college grads in Shanghai, Bejing, Singapore and other places where, apparently, they don't teach science.*

*heavy sarcasm

[fwhite42]

Never let facts get in the way of good opinions.

Christianity is the most aggressively proselytizing religion in the history of man, so there's no surprise that it is widespread and represents a larger percentage of the world's population than any other religion. The next closest is Islam, and Christianity had about 500 years' headstart.

Each of the last few worldwide estimates show the fastest growing religious self identification as non-religious.

Christianity has been fairly consistently about 33% in those same estimates...neither growing nor shrinking on a global scale.

The majority of the top-20 countries with the highest density of Christians are "poor" countries.

The majority of the top-20 countries with the highest density of non-religious people are "wealthy" countries.

In the last survey I saw, both Islam and non-religious were growing faster than Christianity in the US.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by fwhite42

Never let facts get in the way of good opinions.

Christianity is the most aggressively proselytizing religion in the history of man, so there's no surprise that it is widespread and represents a larger percentage of the world's population than any other religion. The next closest is Islam, and Christianity had about 500 years' headstart.

Each of the last few worldwide estimates show the fastest growing religious self identification as non-religious.

Christianity has been fairly consistently about 33% in those same estimates...neither growing nor shrinking on a global scale.

The majority of the top-20 countries with the highest density of Christians are "poor" countries.

The majority of the top-20 countries with the highest density of non-religious people are "wealthy" countries.

In the last survey I saw, both Islam and non-religious were growing faster than Christianity in the US.

It's true. Christians are settling in at around 2-3 billion. Feels like we're withering on the vine. If the Muslims ever catch up with us (in another lifetime or two), I suppose your grandkids will be shaking fists at them and waxing contemptuous like their bigot of a granddad.

[fwhite42]

Did you just call me a bigot because I posted statistics? Wow.

I didn't take a position, I didn't state an opinion, and I'm pretty sure you've never seen or heard me express any bigoted attitudes toward any religious or non-religious group. But, yeah, I'm the one with contempt here.

Time for Too Hot?

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by fwhite42

Did you just call me a bigot because I posted statistics? Wow.

I didn't take a position, I didn't state an opinion, and I'm pretty sure you've never seen or heard me express any bigoted attitudes toward any religious or non-religious group. But, yeah, I'm the one with contempt here.

Time for Too Hot?

I'm pretty sure this has got you a little excited and you're a little chastened and are backtracking now.

But indeed, let's move this to Too Hot. I'm just about to get started. After all, we religious types are said to be aggressive sorts.

[bakaduin]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

You folks seem desperate. Last I checked, Catholics are Christians too.

Strange that the people we commonly consider the founders of modern science didn't get that they were obliged to discard the 'baggage' of religious belief.

Nobody is making personal attacks just stating opinions and statistics. I respect every Christian and their beliefs. My wife is Catholic, we baptized our child Catholic, my parents are Catholic, and I was Catholic until fairly recently.

In the end I just couldn't keep rationalizing all the fallacies I had been taught. When you come from a science background the definitive mantra is don't just think, prove with rigorous studies. The exact opposite is true of religion, believe what you can never prove. That was fine for many years until I started listening to the things I was believing. The most glaring example is the Bible's argument that the Earth is 10,000 years old. This is so factually wrong and such a major part of the Bible that it makes you question what can be believed. There are fossils all around us that prove this to be ridiculous. Noah's Ark? No proof it happened. The Exodus? No proof it happened.

Again, I respect every religion but the truth is as a nation becomes more developed, and science is embraced, the doubt begins. There is a reason Christianity is higher in underdeveloped nations. You are right that I erred in breaking down Catholicism and Protestantism and together they make up the majority of the population. I just hypothesize that it won't always be the case and that number will continue to shrink while non-religious affiliation will grow.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by bakaduin

Nobody is making personal attacks just stating opinions and statistics. I respect every Christian and their beliefs. My wife is Catholic, we baptized our child Catholic, my parents are Catholic, and I was Catholic until fairly recently.

In the end I just couldn't keep rationalizing all the fallacies I had been taught. When you come from a science background the definitive mantra is don't just think, prove with rigorous studies. The exact opposite is true of religion, believe what you can never prove. That was fine for many years until I started listening to the things I was believing. The most glaring example is the Bible's argument that the Earth is 10,000 years old. This is so factually wrong and such a major part of the Bible that it makes you question what can be believed. There are fossils all around us that prove this to be ridiculous. Noah's Ark? No proof it happened. The Exodus? No proof it happened.

Again, I respect every religion but the truth is as a nation becomes more developed, and science is embraced, the doubt begins. There is a reason Christianity is higher in underdeveloped nations. You are right that I erred in breaking down Catholicism and Protestantism and together they make up the majority of the population. I just hypothesize that it won't always be the case and that number will continue to shrink while non-religious affiliation will grow.

You do realize you're a Biblical literalist who's panning Biblical literalism, don't you ?

[bakaduin]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

You do realize you're a Biblical literalist who's panning Biblical literalism, don't you ?

This is an argument you see more and more of. 25 years ago the bible was to be taken literally. These weren't metaphorical stories they were the word of the lord. Now that the idea doesn't mesh with reality the tune has changed. I guess where do you draw the line Dream? If the Old Testament isn't to be taken literally than why should the new Testament? Is Jesus himself just a metaphor?

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by bakaduin

This is an argument you see more and more of. 25 years ago the bible was to be taken literally. These weren't metaphorical stories they were the word of the lord. Now that the idea doesn't mesh with reality the tune has changed. I guess where do you draw the line Dream? If the Old Testament isn't to be taken literally than why should the new Testament? Is Jesus himself just a metaphor?

I guess there's the Straw Man Fallacy and there's the Straw Deity Fallacy. Genesis also has the Sun being created on the Fourth Day. Now, do you really think the writer of Genesis was so stupid as to not realize the Sun was the source of daylight or, is it more reasonable to suppose that, in a book replete with symbolism, hyperbole and polemic, that the writer had something more sublime in mind ? Recall that Fundamentalism was a Twentieth Century movement which mobilized to counter positivism.

I am merely pointing out that Bible-critics are the new Fundamentalists.