Post-mill, Pre-mill, A-mill

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by Lawdog88

And apparently, with the Devil.

... whom you look under your bed for, at night, along with Muslims, et.al.

[Lawdog88]

So how does your religion explain the persistence of objective evil - and people acting evil - in this not-fallen-anymore world of yours ?

Serious answers, please. We already know your quippy, non-sequiterish IQ.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by Lawdog88

So how does your religion explain the persistence of objective evil - and people acting evil - in this not-fallen-anymore world of yours ?

Serious answers, please. We already know your quippy, non-sequiterish IQ.

I've already explained to you - and provide scripture, to boot - that the Bible does not promise the absence of evil anymore than it promises to blow up the world. What it does promise is considerable - freedom from law, availability of grace and various benefits that you have no basis to claim apart from the fact that Jesus did what he said he was going to do, namely return and bring salvation with him.

Your response: "Na-Na-Na! I can't hear you!"

[Lawdog88]

Thanks.

You have answered quite convincingly that you don't read the bible, or if you do, understand it.

And it is sad that your religion had to find a coping mechanism for its obvious failings. I mean, hey, God tried but you know, this evil thing is just more than He can handle. So let's just live together, and maybe start a new thing some day. God's still a really nice guy, though, any way you cut it.

But do keep working out and pumping up. You'll be a power lifter yet.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by Lawdog88

Thanks.

You have answered quite convincingly that you don't read the bible, or if you do, understand it.

And it is sad that your religion had to find a coping mechanism for its obvious failings. I mean, hey, God tried but you know, this evil thing is just more than He can handle. So let's just live together, and maybe start a new thing some day. God's still a really nice guy, though, any way you cut it.

But do keep working out and pumping up. You'll be a power lifter yet.

You continue to argue, by extension, that God is a failure. Unwittingly, you shake your fist at him because he hasn't smote down, by drone, the people who scare you.

[lacuna]

John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

Originally Posted by reformedgator

In addition to the many familiar verses that proclaim the diety of Christ, I recently found another in Jude 1:4. It refers to denying "Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord".
The Greek term translated "Sovereign" describes power without limit or absolute domination. The Greek construction indicates that both Sovereign & Lord refer to the same person, & this verse as well as the parallel passage (2Peter2:1) clearly states that that person is Christ.

That's all well and good about the definition of 'sovereign' but you won't find that word's equivalent in the original Greek in these 2 verses. Nor does the KJAV translation incorporate the word in either of those passages.

Neither does the use of the word "Lord" offer any proof Jesus's followers believed he was God as the Greek word for "lord" - kyrios - is also translated as "master". And in fact, in the original Greek of the 2nd Peter verse, the word "kyrios" isn't even there!

Don't take my word for it; look it up for yourself.

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...NTpdf/jud1.pdf

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...NTpdf/2pe2.pdf

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/...?strongs=G2962

[reformedgator]

The first 2 links could not accessed. The 3rd emphatically confirmed the diety of Christ & the necessity for the atonement in its faq section. As does all sound Christian theology.

[lacuna]

Originally Posted by reformedgator

The first 2 links could not accessed. The 3rd emphatically confirmed the diety of Christ & the necessity for the atonement in its faq section. As does all sound Christian theology.

Scripture4all links are quirky and sometimes they fail to register. Try the 2 links again to see if they can be accessed. If not, go to this page as it has direct links to those 2 pages that will likely work.

http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...reek_Index.htm

I see no emphatic confirmation. Why do you think the 3rd link defining kyrios "emphatically confirm[s] the diety [sic] of Christ and the necessity for the atonement"? The lexicon plainly states kyrios is also translated in the KJAV of the NT 11 times as "master" and 12 times as "sir." It is also translated 54 times as "lord" with a lowercase "l". The Greek words of the New Testament do not 'emphatically confirm' or support manufactured Christian dogma.

[Lawdog88]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

You continue to argue, by extension, that God is a failure. Unwittingly, you shake your fist at him because he hasn't smote down, by drone, the people who scare you.

Objective evil is not people.

But you should know that . . . by now.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by Lawdog88

Objective evil is not people.

But you should know that . . . by now.

And here I thought evil needed objects like, say, people.

[Lawdog88]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

And here I thought evil needed objects like, say, people.

I guess you don't know very much then.

Evil exists independently of people, who gravitate to it, are affected by it, then succumb to it, and are consumed by it.

That's the way it works.

In your world.

[wargunfan]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

Sure, whatever the Holy Spirit was, it wasn't good to reject it.

This obsession with the Trinity is bizarre. BTW, Arianism was the majority view of the early church. And by all accounts, Athanasius was a cruel, opportunistic and heartless. He was reportedly overjoyed on learning that Arius had died a painful death.

You're gonna be right at home in the granola state. You know...fruits and flakes and nuts.

[lacuna]

Originally Posted by Gatormb

So just a special man gives eternal life? Certainly Jesus and the Father have the same purpose. Because they ARE the same. I believe even Unitarians agree the Word is Jesus. John tells us the Word is God and that the Word became flesh and dwelt among us.

Seems pretty clear to me. Appears UU's are more in agreement with Islam on who Jesus was than traditional Christianity.

MB, out of curiosity I looked up what Islam teaches on the virgin birth dogma and discovered this:

Question: Do Muslims believe in the virgin birth of Jesus?

Answer: Muslims believe that Jesus (called 'Isa in Arabic) was the son of Mary, and was conceived without the intervention of a human father. The Qur'an describes that an angel appeared to Mary, to announce to her the "gift of a holy son" (19:19). She was astonished at the news, and asked: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?" (19:20). When the angel explained to her that she had been chosen for the service of God, and that God had ordained the matter, she devoutly submitted herself to His will.

http://islam.about.com/cs/jesus/f/jesus_birth.htm

So I would say when it comes to the doctrine of the virgin birth, Muslims are more in agreement with Trinitarians than unitarians as you previously claimed.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by Lawdog88

I guess you don't know very much then.

Evil exists independently of people, who gravitate to it, are affected by it, then succumb to it, and are consumed by it.

That's the way it works.

In your world.

So, it's just sort of out there in the ether ... and people can't get to it anymore ? you mean that God will turn us into robots, or something like that ? And Jesus was just bullchitting about this "Age to Come" where certain sins would not be forgiven ?

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by wargunfan

You're gonna be right at home in the granola state. You know...fruits and flakes and nuts.

I know, bailed out when you couldn't answer the clear First-Century indicators of prophesy and couldn't shift attention to the Trinity.

[Lawdog88]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

So, it's just sort of out there in the ether ... and people can't get to it anymore ? you mean that God will turn us into robots, or something like that ? And Jesus was just bullchitting about this "Age to Come" where certain sins would not be forgiven ?

Try the Garden of Eden metaphor for starters. Or take it literally if you need to.

You have really lost either your marbles or whatever it was you thought you had, apparently. You are making no sense at all.

[wargunfan]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

I know, bailed out when you couldn't answer the clear First-Century indicators of prophesy and couldn't shift attention to the Trinity.

You bailed out all right. It remains to be seen where you land.

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by Lawdog88

Try the Garden of Eden metaphor for starters. Or take it literally if you need to.

You have really lost either your marbles or whatever it was you thought you had, apparently. You are making no sense at all.

... and you're waiting ... and waiting ... and waiting ... and

[Dreamliner]

Originally Posted by wargunfan

You bailed out all right. It remains to be seen where you land.

Says the guy who believes in three gods.

[Lawdog88]

Originally Posted by Dreamliner

... and you're waiting ... and waiting ... and waiting ... and

For His return ? Certainly, unlike the cracked and potted club saying "there He is," that Jesus, Paul and others warned about.

Waiting to be filled with the Spirit while waiting on His return for all men to see, as Jesus said we were to be ? Of course not. You know, that has been taken care of, just like in Acts.

So, no more going round in your circles. Believe what you will.

But do the rest of us a favor and quit lusting after God; do some real seeking instead, which is a different thing. You will be surprised what you might find.