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Old 02-05-2013, 11:26 PM   #341
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Originally Posted by oragator1 View Post
The problem with that is that if you let discrimination slide, pretty soon there isn't an "elsewhere" to go to.
On its face, it seems like a logical argument, let people serve who they want and the market will rectify their actions through boycotts, publicity etc if warranted. But what if it were a gas station and it were the only one for 30 miles? Or what if it's a small town providing a needed service and the owner has enough friends that he/she isn't going to get hurt by it, even if they don't agree with him/her? Even in this case, what if there wasn't another cake maker locally? That's why it can't be legal, beyond the obvious of the insult of being told you aren't worthy of being served, people's lives depend on the services private business provide. He doesn't have a right to discriminate per Oregon law. He admits as much in the article, if you don't like that law, don't live in one of the most liberal states in the country, or work to get it changed.
So, sounds like what you're saying is that a business owner may be coerced into serving people he/she does not wish to serve.
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Old 02-05-2013, 11:57 PM   #342
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
So, sounds like what you're saying is that a business owner may be coerced into serving people he/she does not wish to serve.
If the basis for the discrimination is that one belongs to a protected class, then yes. You think that's unreasonable?
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Old 02-06-2013, 01:01 AM   #343
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Originally Posted by Dreamliner View Post
So, sounds like what you're saying is that a business owner may be coerced into serving people he/she does not wish to serve.
Yes, current law already has that requirement in many cases for the reasons I gave, hence why he is being investigated.
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Old 02-07-2013, 07:10 AM   #344
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Originally Posted by WESGATORS

They've already been defined, should they be redefined? Can you give me an example of that which is masculine in one culture but feminine in another culture?
In Ancient Greek homosexual relations between teenage boys and men were very common and socially acceptable
Quote:
Those scholars who prefer the historical approach are convinced that pederasty originates in Dorian initiation rites. The Dorians were the last tribe to migrate to Greece, and they are usually described as real he-men with a very masculine culture. According to the proponents of this theory, pederasty came to being on the Dorian island Crete, where grown-up men used to kidnap adolescents. It is assumed that this practice spread from Crete to the Greek mainland. In the soldiers' city Sparta, it was not uncommon when a warrior took care of a recruit and stood next to him on the battlefield, where the two men bravely protected each other. Especially in aristocratic circles, pederasty is believed to have been common.
http://www.livius.org/ho-hz/homosexu...sexuality.html

Several South American and European cultures (Southern and Eastern) it is socially acceptable for men to kiss each other on the cheek
[quote]In Argentina, people are fairly tactile: we hug and kiss and hold hands all the time. We give one peck on the check when we greet friends and family and even acquaintances. When we’re introduced to new people, say at a party, we tend to kiss too, especially women. Men hug and kiss their friends too (both male and female). In a more formal situation, we shake hands (at least the first time we meet.)[/QUOYE{
http://pocketcultures.com/2010/07/14...r-shake-hands/

Quote:
In Eastern Europe, male–female and female–female cheek kissing is a standard greeting among friends, while male–male cheek kisses are common, if somewhat less so. Eastern European communist leaders often greeted each other in this fashion on public and state occasions. In Europe overall, the greeting among men is increasingly common, especially among the young.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheek_kissing

Some Asian men are big into makeup:
Quote:
SEOUL, South Korea (AP) — Cho Won-hyuk stands in front of his bedroom mirror and spreads dollops of yellow-brown makeup over his forehead, nose, chin and cheeks until his skin is flawless. Then he goes to work with a black pencil, highlighting his eyebrows until they're thicker, bolder.
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/2012-...on-for-success

In some cultures there is nothing wrong with men tending to the house and children and the women being the bread winners.

In some cultures there is a big issue with women being athletes or into hunting/fishing. They consider those activities not feminine for women.

In some cultures men are consider sissy if the show testy emotions in public or in front of women and children.

In some cultures there are occupations that are considered masculine and feminine. While in other cultures there is no distinction with occupation and gender/sexuality.

Quote:
It's not government-mandated if that's what you're wondering. I'll encourage my family, friends, and neighbors, and you encourage yours. Just like we do with other moral issues. Everybody's happy, right?
The position of being a morality councilor on sexuality should only extend to family members. One exception is when a non family member ask for help in their struggle over sexuality. Beyond that you are in the area of mind your own business.

How would you like it if your gay neighbor came up to your son saying that your straight lifestyle is not working for him and encouraged he should look into giving the gay world a try?

Quote:
The concept was presented more in the abstract than with respect to any specifics. The bottom line being that some people don't truly feel that they have an answer with being declared "homosexual" and an alternative possibility may in fact be a more logical result for them. Why restrict the possibility?
Why enforce the possibility for those who have the answer. If someone has it in their head that they are gay or straight and they did not ask for your help then you need to mind your own business.

[
Quote:
The brain is very powerful and it can be shaped and re-shaped more than most of us typically understand.
You can reshape or mold the brain when it comes to instinct or the hard wired instructions.
You might as well tell done one to quit breathing .

Quote:
I don't follow you here. What discrimination? Who said anybody should be happy on someone else's terms?
You are.

You have openly state that you exclude /include or accept/reject people on their sexuality.

If you argue this point then why do you feel that you have to correct gay people who have not asked your help?
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:38 AM   #345
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I see what you are saying on the different examples of masculinity/femininity, but let me ask you...is it ok for cultures to claim moral superiority?

So if one culture accepts homosexual pedophilia, may another culture condemn it? Slavery used to be acceptable too (still is in some parts of the world). May one culture claim moral hierarchy even if the other culture does not agree?

Quote:
Originally Posted by northgagator View Post
The position of being a morality councilor on sexuality should only extend to family members. One exception is when a non family member ask for help in their struggle over sexuality. Beyond that you are in the area of mind your own business.
Why can't friends help friends? Why would you care how my friends support each other if you and your friends may do things differently? Why would I care how you and your friends support each other if we may do things differently?

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Originally Posted by northgagator View Post
How would you like it if your gay neighbor came up to your son saying that your straight lifestyle is not working for him and encouraged he should look into giving the gay world a try?
I probably wouldn't like it at all...doesn't mean I think it should be illegal. Or that the government should mandate how we deal with it one way or the other.

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Originally Posted by northgagator View Post
Why enforce the possibility for those who have the answer. If someone has it in their head that they are gay or straight and they did not ask for your help then you need to mind your own business.
Who is "enforcing the possibility" and what does that even mean?
Who says I am not minding my own business when they did not ask for my help?

It should be noted, though, that people don't always ask for help directly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by northgagator View Post
You can reshape or mold the brain when it comes to instinct or the hard wired instructions.
I completely agree, although it might not always be as easy as what you are expressing, and some of what we may wish to accomplish is not yet medically possible. But the key word is "yet."

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Originally Posted by northgagator View Post
You are.
Quote, please. Presumably you are reading more into my comments than what I have written...or perhaps, I have incorrectly expressed what I intended to say.

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Originally Posted by northgagator View Post
You have openly state that you exclude /include or accept/reject people on their sexuality.
Where did I say that, I think you are confusing me with somebody else.

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Originally Posted by northgagator View Post
If you argue this point then why do you feel that you have to correct gay people who have not asked your help?
Who said I'm even seeking to "correct gay people?" My point is let's not make "correction" seem like an impossibility. It's either possible now or it will be possible and is worth exploring how to make it possible. I see no logical reason to obstruct either from the perspective of having options.

Go GATORS!
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:44 AM   #346
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All I know is if Culliver liked guys a little more, maybe he'd have covered Jones a little closer.... didn't seem to want to be anywhere near him all game.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:45 AM   #347
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Originally Posted by oragator1 View Post
Yes, current law already has that requirement in many cases for the reasons I gave, hence why he is being investigated.
The law is the law. How do you feel about the law ? Recall that slavery was once the law.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:46 AM   #348
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Originally Posted by OaktownGator View Post
All I know is if Culliver liked guys a little more, maybe he'd have covered Jones a little closer.... didn't seem to want to be anywhere near him all game.
Jones was flaming.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:26 PM   #349
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The law is the law. How do you feel about the law ? Recall that slavery was once the law.
I gave reasons why the law makes sense even if on the surface it seems too overarching. Dispute those if you like.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:30 PM   #350
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Maybe we are misunderstanding Culver.

He could be concerned one day with gay QB that will go deep on him.
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