I'm Calling BS on Hugh Freeze

[SPErebel]

Originally Posted by ArtDeco

Look, friend, you're not on the Clarion Ledger here. And these aren't Bulldogs you're messing with. You want to bring up Coach Pell on a thread about your suspect coach, you will soon find yourself banned. Just some friendly advice.

I notice that you didn't include the whole post for context. Also notice that it went from "our" coach at Ole Miss to "your" coach.

If I get banned, I get banned. That's the call of the moderators and they certainly have that prerogative. I happen to think they are much more objective and understand that we all have our Billy Brewer or our Charley Pell or our Jackie Sherrill in the long history of each of our respective schools and that, when dealing with the touchy issues of recruiting impropriety, anyone who has gotten a major penalty from the NCAA is likely to be mentioned in a historical perspective.

I make no bones about the fact that Ole Miss holds the top place in my heart. It's in my screen name. It's where I spent five years and got my undergraduate degrees. Make no mistake, though, it doesn't change the fact that I grew up a Gator, went to grad school there before entering the working world and want Florida to win every game played if it's not against the Rebels. It's what happens when you grow up in Ben Hill Griffin Stadium. You can't help but have that become a part of you.

[tideh8rGator]

One interesting question that has not been brought up is the matter of just WHERE Ole Miss would get the $$$ needed to do what many are alluding to.

The whole state of MS is dirt-poor and it possesses virtually no natural resources to hang its hat on. The Ole Miss infrastructure is as Deep South as it gets and there isn't THAT much money left from "plantation" days... LOL essentially none. The negative national image of MS prevents tourism and drives business away. MS is for all intents and purposes, "radioactive" to a large degree to any business and financial development.

The cheating next door in gumpland is financed by coal, steel, construction and maritime interests (and make no mistake, gumpland is FLUSH with cash in the right places) and is compounded by the pathological obsession with their team of record that has been a way of life for decades. Auburn's cheating is a reaction to that and is considered a necessity for survival against the evil empire across the state.

The whole dynamic in MS is different, the 2 state schools hate each other on the level of 2 brothers courting the same girl... not as life-and-death. There is no history or culture of winning at either school, to be sustained "at all costs". And the $$$ is much less available.

Against all that, one must ask where the $$$ would have to come from.

MS made an effort a few years back to change all that, and in the process sold their souls. They have one overriding resource now, and it is actually even more scary than the prospect of cheating itself.... when we consider where the $$$ likely comes from and the involvement in sports at ANY level from that quarter.

Think Memphis. Calipari.

Tunica.

You figure it out from there.


PS: Why all the rumblings from out of nowhere about Dan Mullen's program too...

[ArtDeco]

Originally Posted by SPErebel

I notice that you didn't include the whole post for context. Also notice that it went from "our" coach at Ole Miss to "your" coach.

Freeze is not my coach. I never understood the hire, but now it might be making $en$e

[atlantagator86]

Originally Posted by GATORAZ

I dont reside anywhere but here/ I look at offers but care more about what I see on film. A lot of offers kids get are not committable

So why were you wanting my opinions of 247?

Yes, many offers are not committable and it's not uncommon for the kids to lie about offers, so I don't just go by who the kid says he has offers from.

I've followed recruiting for about 20 years now, even before GC was around. And you can get a pretty good idea of how interested a school really is if you know what to look for. You also get a pretty good feel over time of the things that motivate kids to pick a school, especially those who decide to leave their region.

I'm not really a film guy. I don't claim to be any sort of expert in evaluating talent and I'll leave that to people who are more qualified than me.

[SPErebel]

Originally Posted by ArtDeco

Freeze is not my coach. I never understood the hire, but now it might be making $en$e

What doesn't make sense is that everything you have said in this thread supports the opposite of what you claim to be. It is a bit mind boggling if you are a relatively significant booster and an alum.

And since I have turned this into a pissing contest as a guest on this board, I will try to bow out without being more of a disruption than I have already been to this point. I apologize to the others reading and visiting the board.

[GATORAZ]

Originally Posted by atlantagator86

So why were you wanting my opinions of 247?

Yes, many offers are not committable and it's not uncommon for the kids to lie about offers, so I don't just go by who the kid says he has offers from.

I've followed recruiting for about 20 years now, even before GC was around. And you can get a pretty good idea of how interested a school really is if you know what to look for. You also get a pretty good feel over time of the things that motivate kids to pick a school, especially those who decide to leave their region.

I'm not really a film guy. I don't claim to be any sort of expert in evaluating talent and I'll leave that to people who are more qualified than me.

Because you said you didn't like them and I wanted to see what you said. So you follow recruiting for awhile and say you can get a good feel for what motivates kids. What do you think motivates the kids that picked Ole Miss that you claim they are paying? Where do you think they would have gone if Ole miss wasn't paying them?

[ArtDeco]

Originally Posted by SPErebel

What doesn't make sense is that everything you have said in this thread supports the opposite of what you claim to be. It is a bit mind boggling if you are a relatively significant booster and an alum.

Who said anything about being a significant booster? I said I supported their academic foundation. You can, too, you know, and I encourage it. Contact the Ole Miss Foundation.
You can support your school without breaking the rules.
What's funny is I remember State fans selling out their morals to Jackie Sherrill...Ole Miss "fans" seem willing to do the same.

[atlantagator86]

Originally Posted by tideh8rGator

One interesting question that has not been brought up is the matter of just WHERE Ole Miss would get the $$$ needed to do what many are alluding to.

First of all, I'm not sure why you're thinking business or industry is involved in recruiting violations. Mostly it's individual boosters and small privately owned businesses.

For example, one of the big suspected violators at Bama is T-Town Menswear. This guy has been using the Bama athletes to promote his store for years. He gets kids to come into the store, sign stuff and take pictures and in return, I presume he gives them clothes, buys them meals and maybe even gives them cash.

Take a look at the photos on the store's Facebook page. He's got photos of Bama football players signing all kinds of stuff and at restaurants with them. This guy, at least to me, comes off as not even trying to hide it. My guess is that the guy who got Ohio State in trouble was doing almost the exact same thing as this guy.

But these are the guys who are out there paying these kids. It's not the schools or the big businesses in the state. There's a lot more family money in Mississippi that you may realize. And it's probably not Tunica money.

[GATORAZ]

The crazy thing about cheating is people swear Clemson does it but they have lost out on every big time commit this year. Unless you count the Ebenezer Ogundeko Scott Pagano & Jayron Kearse's of the world which I dont

[tideh8rGator]

Do NOT be so quick to discount gaming's influence here.

The pictures Treadwell posted on his Facebook featured the 2 things that he likes about Ole Miss. One, he finds in the Grove and all over that campus. That's well-established.

The other is what Tunica specializes in.

I was in Oxford in '02 when ellie beat us. I remember telling one of the Ole Miss fans there that I was actually from S. Fla., and he proceeded to go into a long-winded description of how dirty recruiting was at the u, he related personal knowledge he had how that Ole Miss was within an eyelash of landing Frank Gore before the u's bling-bling brigade swooped in and $tole him away from them... and how that Ole Miss would do "anything" to start evening the score with the other schools that did things like that in the future. In other words, they would give as good as they got in the cheating department, given sufficient ammunition to fight with.

Not just the under-the-table $$$, but the presence and proximity of gaming is attracting these kids to schools nowadays, I am virtually certain of that.

Ever wonder why ALL OF A SUDDEN, l$u became such an "it" school in the early '00s? For some unknown reason Baton Rouge became The. Place. To. Be. among college recruits. Ever wonder why? What was there? The kids all decided they liked Cajun food all at the same time LOL?

I don't think it was because of satan. It kept RIGHT ON GOING with the mad hatter. In fact they have recruited BETTER under Miles than they ever did w/ satan.

It coincided with the advent of floating casinos along the Mississippi River.

I think Ole Miss and Starkville have both decided to follow the l$u model in order to survive against l$u (whom Ole Miss hates above all others) and the great satan to the adjacent east.

[atlantagator86]

Originally Posted by GATORAZ

Because you said you didn't like them and I wanted to see what you said. So you follow recruiting for awhile and say you can get a good feel for what motivates kids. What do you think motivates the kids that picked Ole Miss that you claim they are paying? Where do you think they would have gone if Ole miss wasn't paying them?

I said I "Don't even look at 247 ratings". I didn't say I didn't like them. I honestly wasn't even aware that 247 rated kids like that until you mentioned it.

I have also not accused Ole Miss is paying anybody. I don't know what's going on but I definitely think something is not right here.

And what I believe motivates kids to leave their region is exactly what makes me so suspicious. The usually leave because they want to play for an elite team, of because they have a tie to a school (parent went there or they grew up a fan), or because they want to play for a specific coach, or because a parent or mentor/coach is pushing them somewhere, or believe it or not in a few cases it's actually academics.

Some kids look at depth charts and early playing time too, but in most cases, 5-star and #1 in the nation recruits at their position think they'll be starting early wherever they go anyway, so that usually isn't as big a factor for these top kids.

But your point is exactly what throws up the HUGE red flag for me. As far as I'm aware, Ole Miss doesn't have any of these factors for Treadwell or Tunsil or any of the other 6 names I mentioned that are 3, 4 and 5 star recruits who aren't from Mississippi, adjacent states or JUCOs. Nkemdiche is the lone exception and I can understand if Jones and Conner choose Ole Miss as they are in-state.

I really don't know why all these guys are suddenly picking Ole Miss. I'm having a tough time buying that Treadwell decided to go so far from home to play in a mediocre program just to play with a former high school teammate that he may or may not have been all that close with. You may recall cases of that happening, but I don't. And I certainly can't recall a case where a mediocre program who rarely ever recruited outside it's base had 8 guys make what appears to be a similar decision.

I don't have any idea why all of these guys chose Ole Miss. It just doesn't make sense unless there was more to their decision than we know.

[atlantagator86]

Originally Posted by GATORAZ

The crazy thing about cheating is people swear Clemson does it but they have lost out on every big time commit this year.

I am one who believes Clemson probably cheats. I don't think there's any other explanation for the way they've turned recruits away from elite programs out of nowhere. Clemson, much like Ole Miss, really doesn't have any discernable advantages over schools like UGA or UF. I honestly can't imagine why a guy like Spiller would have picked Clemson over UF, despite his mother's objections, unless there was something more involved.

And I suspect that what may have happened at Clemson this year is the heat was building and they knew they needed to back off or they were going to get caught.

[GATORAZ]

Originally Posted by atlantagator86

I said I "Don't even look at 247 ratings". I didn't say I didn't like them. I honestly wasn't even aware that 247 rated kids like that until you mentioned it.

I have also not accused Ole Miss is paying anybody. I don't know what's going on but I definitely think something is not right here.

I really don't know why all these guys are suddenly picking Ole Miss. I'm having a tough time buying that Treadwell decided to go so far from home to play in a mediocre program just to play with a former high school teammate that he may or may not have been all that close with. You may recall cases of that happening, but I don't. And I certainly can't recall a case where a mediocre program who rarely ever recruited outside it's base had 8 guys make what appears to be a similar decision.

I don't have any idea why all of these guys chose Ole Miss. It just doesn't make sense unless there was more to their decision than we know.

See this is where I think you are lost, look at the schools Treadwell was looking at Ole Miss, Michigan and the two schools in Oklahoma. Treadwell doesn't have ties to any of those schools BUT Ole Miss. Treadwell is the type kid that doesnt care about academics and he knows he is going to play wherever he goes. The kid just wants to have a good time and get balls thrown his way. I followed this kids whole recruitment and as soon as he started visiting Ole Miss I said that is where he is going cheating or no cheating.

He always said he was going to take visits. He didnt like Michigan's offense and his schools high school games kept him from visiting Oklahoma early.

[GATORAZ]

Originally Posted by atlantagator86

I am one who believes Clemson probably cheats. I don't think there's any other explanation for the way they've turned recruits away from elite programs out of nowhere. Clemson, much like Ole Miss, really doesn't have any discernable advantages over schools like UGA or UF. I honestly can't imagine why a guy like Spiller would have picked Clemson over UF, despite his mother's objections, unless there was something more involved.

And I suspect that what may have happened at Clemson this year is the heat was building and they knew they needed to back off or they were going to get caught.

Clemson is a small town some kids like that especially these small town Georgia and Carolina kids. It has a SEC like fanbase and good facilities. Do I think they are cheating ? Like I said before it would be naive to think any of the schools in the south are clean especially with things I have heard over the years.

[atlantagator86]

Originally Posted by tideh8rGator

Do NOT be so quick to discount gaming's influence here.

I'm not exactly clear on what you are suggesting in your post. What exactly are you saying Mississippi has that's such an advantage? Alabama and Tennessee have casinos and I'm pretty sure you can hop on a boat in Florida, Georgia or South Carolina and go out to international waters and gamble.

In fact, Milton McGregor who owns Victoryland is an Auburn booster and was supposedly giving Auburn players cash cards at Victoryland. That's a big part of the investigation that's been going on at Auburn.

So I'm not sure I'm understanding what advantage you think Ole Miss has. If gambling is such a major draw for athletes, shouldn't UNLV be national champs?!

I absolutely can see Ole Miss boosters deciding they won't get outbid again and being willing to put up more money. That part I understand.

In all seriousness, I'm sure some athletes enjoy casinos being there for entertainment and some might even pick a school for that reason, but I'm not sure I would go as far as saying LSU was built on casinos. I'm pretty sure Mississippi has had them much longer than Louisiana.

[swampbabe]

I have one question in all of this back and forth, how common is it for a university to outsource their compliance department? This just strikes me as odd. Well, that, and convenient.

[ArtDeco]

Originally Posted by swampbabe

I have one question in all of this back and forth, how common is it for a university to outsource their compliance department? This just strikes me as odd. Well, that, and convenient.

I haven't followed this angle very closely. Ole Miss does not have a compliance officer? Surely they must. In the book "Meat Market", the Ole Miss Compliance officer was always on Orgeron's mind and attended alot of the meetings. He seemed like a real thorn in Orgeron's side. I wonder if that guy is still there.

[demosthenes]

There isn't just one compliance officer. I know a guy in USCw compliance and they have quite a few people.

[bantab]

Originally Posted by GATORAZ

I wonder if people actually watched Ole Miss play this year. They are going to be very competitive in the SEC west

Definitely. Especially with all the great players they're cheating to get.

[bantab]

Everyone is missing the boat on this one. Let's just assume they're cheating.

How do we help them not get caught?