Gator Country

gatorbogey · 02-01-2013, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G2MGA

Bottom line - there is not a *female* WCBB coach out there that is going to turn us into a top 10 team overnight. Amanda has the program going in the right direction and has finally mostly rebuilt the recruiting pipelines that effectively collapsed during the Peck tenure. Her game coaching and player development are at times spotty, but both have improved noticeably since she got here and I assume she will continue to get better in these areas. It comes with the territory when you hire someone with limited experience as HC. I support her and believe she will build this program back up to the levels we saw during the Carol Ross era - consistent top 25, with an occasional foray into the top 10.

If Foley wanted to reverse course and consider male candidates, the program could improve more rapidly, but clearly winning is a secondary priority to having female leadership for this particular program. One of the top 5 WCBB coaches in the country IMHO is languishing down the road at FGCU - his stats are ridiculous and they pack the arena with their offense that leads the country in 3's almost every year. I expect him to someday win a national championship for whatever BCS school reels him in, but I do not expect that to be us.

interesting point about gender leadership.
and i agree about amanda still learning the craft.

**fubar1** · 02-01-2013, 04:08 PM

Isn't it harder to achieve success in women's bball due to just a few concentrated powers?

I realize Baylor came out of nowhere, but the men's basketball program wasn't exactly a model of compliance so I have my doubts about the overall athletic department.

But it seems like every year it's Duke, UT, UConn or ND winning a title with few exceptions. But I don't follow it closely so my perceptions may be flawed.

missourigator · 02-01-2013, 05:04 PM

Fsu, Miami, Kentucky to name a few that have gone from nobodies to somebodies. If they can do it, why can't we?

gatorbogey · 02-01-2013, 05:13 PM

fsu's coach is in her 16th year there, right? [continuity]
miami's is in her 8th year. will amanda match her in 2 years?
UK's coach's tenure matches amanda's; they get 4k to 8k to attend their games though.

EastTNG8TR · 02-01-2013, 06:52 PM

Sue Semrau had one NIT and one NCAA appearance in her first 7 years....15-15 in year 7..... Year 8 and every year since she has went to the NCAA. Katie Meier at Miami is in year 7 and sits on a 14-7 record currently. Butler was better than both in the first five years. FSU and Miami are examples of why Amanda needs more time, not the other way around. UK is a basketball oriented school and DeMoss got them started upward before Mitchell arrived.

**gatorman_07732** · 02-01-2013, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bullis33

Butler has never been the answer....love that she is a former Gator, but if we want to move forward we need a better coach...the issue is whether we can actually attract one....

Heartbreaking but true Bullis. We always want our alumni to succeed, especially when then come back home.

Profgator · 02-01-2013, 07:30 PM

What Hump?

Singaporegator · 02-01-2013, 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EastTNG8TR

Sue Semrau had one NIT and one NCAA appearance in her first 7 years....15-15 in year 7..... Year 8 and every year since she has went to the NCAA. Katie Meier at Miami is in year 7 and sits on a 14-7 record currently. Butler was better than both in the first five years. FSU and Miami are examples of why Amanda needs more time, not the other way around. UK is a basketball oriented school and DeMoss got them started upward before Mitchell arrived.

This seems to me to be the most knowledgable post so far. What evidence do others have that Butler "can't coach" or "is not the answer" particularly given the strong evidence that this sport is a long haul, cultivate the talent, continuity, type sport?

missourigator · 02-02-2013, 11:34 AM

look at the univ. of Missouri, two years ago the team won a total of 5 games. Last year they go get a young upcoming coach. Mizzou has no women's tradition. The team improved and won double the games in her first year. This year they are better and beat us. What evidence do we have that Butler isn't the one? This is her 5th yr. Post season probably not. Winning record probably not. That is a great five year plan. If she doesn't win enough games next year, then we need a new coach.

crapgame44 · 02-02-2013, 11:35 AM

EastTNGator, (as usual spot on), Gatorbogey and SingaporeGator are all dead on with there comments. Most of the others are just looking for the instant results. There is NO way Butler leaves till at least the end of next season. So those that are calling for her head are just wasting their time. Trust me. Weather you think a head coach should have a team built in 2, 5, or 14 years is irrelevant at this point. For those of us that have been following closely the team next year will be the most talented team the program may have ever had in place. Now this time next year, if record is similar, or they dont make the NCAA's then it will be time to look at other options. And also barring a recruiting scandal, a personal crime etc. Foley will not be be hitting the re-set button as a result of next years line-up. I understand he is excited about it also. I just don't want to see people wasting thought on something that is not going to happen. When those posters get frustrated go back and watch the UT game from a couple of weeks ago to boost the faith.

**msa3** · 02-02-2013, 11:49 AM

There's not a lot of innovation in WBB, so a quick turnaround is hard to do. The standards of play are pretty much the same, the offenses and the defenses are the same. So it comes down to players much more than coaching. UF doesn't have a WBB tradition to sell, and it doesn't have a way to pitch upper recruits, and without them, the chances of becoming truly elite are small.

The other thing is that true success in WBB is very rare. UConn, Baylor, Stanford and Tennessee are the only consistent contenders. Making the tourney is one thing but in order to really reach that echelon -- I don't know. Come up with a new system, a new idea. Maybe a press and run -- build a 10-deep bench and just try to wear the opposition out -- I don't see that much in WBB. Give a reason for kids to choose to come here.

I don't know whether Butler is the right coach or not. They've all seemed good, but we're still where we've been for .. well, forever.

gatorbogey · 02-02-2013, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by missourigator

look at the univ. of Missouri, two years ago the team won a total of 5 games. Last year they go get a young upcoming coach. Mizzou has no women's tradition. The team improved and won double the games in her first year. This year they are better and beat us. What evidence do we have that Butler isn't the one? This is her 5th yr. Post season probably not. Winning record probably not. That is a great five year plan. If she doesn't win enough games next year, then we need a new coach.

look at amanda's record:
Amanda inherited peck's 9-22 team and went 19-14 , that's more than doubled the win total her first year too!
the following year, gators went 23-7!! they probably would have smoked missouri that year.
so:
amanda's shown she can coach other people's players. i guess the missouri coach has show that capability too.
she's gotten recruiting going now,...and we'll see if she can similarly win w/ her own players.

missourigator · 02-03-2013, 11:47 AM

You guys think I am asking for Florida to be a Conn., Baylor, Stanford, or Tenn. No, I just think in 5 yrs, we should be at least the top two in our own state not 4 or 5. We should be in the top 7 of the SEc. not 14th. We lose to Miss. who hadn't won a game in the SEC. and beat us in our won gym. Come on. But I go with people who know more than me and wait until next year. If she doesn't win, then she needs to go.

number1 · 02-03-2013, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatorbogey

i will add - i think Amanda is still learning to be a head coach too. probably never stop learning in many ways, but she needed some experience too. might be that all the ingredients will begin to gel soon - next year: where you have some top (for UF) recruits come into the mix, another group of good recruits w/ a year's worth of game experience combine w/ amanda hitting her stride as a coach, and gator nation enthusiasm for gator hoops reaching a fever pitch (thanks to 2 elite eights by BD's teams and then this year's men's squad). the ingredients might be there to take gator women's hoops to a new level.

Wasn't she the head coach at Charlotte before coming here?

number1 · 02-03-2013, 01:27 PM

Also folks aren't saying we should be a UCONN/Tennessee type program, but is it too much to ask for us to be in the Top 5 in the SEC and a routine Top 25 team?

tommyuf21 · 02-03-2013, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1

Also folks aren't saying we should be a UCONN/Tennessee type program, but is it too much to ask for us to be in the Top 5 in the SEC and a routine Top 25 team?

Stability is the only way to get there. Dump this coach and start over and you will be waiting another 5 years to get back to where we are now. Then, of course, that coach will get dumped and because it didn't happen and the cycle repeats itself.

number1 · 02-03-2013, 02:21 PM

That is only true if you don't replace the coach with someone of higher quality.

**stingbb** · 02-03-2013, 03:48 PM

Butler has done a mediocre job at UF. She is not a good recruiter and seems to have a bad relationship with the Florida HS coaches. When you can't recruit in your state, it is very difficult to survive.

UF can't attract a good coach? Since when... Ross was a good coach and Foley hired Peck who had just won a NC at Purdue. Peck did not work out but she was considered a top coach when she came in.

Butler will get another year obviously. But, she better start showing more progress both in recruiting and in wins and losses because right now, her program is going backwards.

EastTNG8TR · 02-03-2013, 03:55 PM

This is just not true.... Cassie Peoples, a McD All American....Antoinette Bannister, one of the top players from Florida ever.....Ronni Williams who is a 5 star and likely McD All American.... all join the team next year joining this years talented freshmen class which had Top 100 players in Moss and Cooper who is redshirting from injury. Butler's recruiting is exactly why Foley extended her contract til 2017.

GatorJeff · 02-03-2013, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gatorbogey

look at amanda's record:
Amanda inherited peck's 9-22 team and went 19-14 , that's more than doubled the win total her first year too!
the following year, gators went 23-7!! they probably would have smoked missouri that year.
so:
amanda's shown she can coach other people's players. i guess the missouri coach has show that capability too.
she's gotten recruiting going now,...and we'll see if she can similarly win w/ her own players.

I agree. The Gators played Baylor better than any other team in the NCAA tourney last year, after the Gators beat Ohio State in the first round in the region's 8/9 game. She's also gotten a commitment from the state's best player (who UConn, UT and everyone else recruited hard). The "give up on Butler" folks probably don't follow the program closely, but instead just pontificate on results in knee-jerk fashion.