Randy Moss: "I'm the greatest receiver to ever play this game."

[Ash]

There was more parity in the NFL during Moss' career than Rice's. There were more stacked teams and more really bad teams when Rice played.

Rice's '49er teams were ridiculously stacked. He played with hall of fame/MVP type QBs his entire career. Joe Montana, Steve Young, Rich Gannon. It wasn't just the QBs though. It was the whole package. Roger Craig, Dwight Clark, Terrel Owens, Tim Brown. Jerry was a weapon amongst many weapons his entire career and teams could not afford to focus much resources in defending him. They had to account for everything. Look at Young, that guy was a running threat on top of everything else. Culpepper was okay for a while (made by Moss, in my opinion, look what he did without Moss). Johnson was a game manager type QB, not a deep ball passer, not a high WR usage rate. At the tail end of Moss' prime he got to play with Brady and what happened? Single season TD record. Ya think maybe if Moss got to play with Brady from the start it might have been different? Or maybe, if Moss go to do the equivalent of Rice and played with Brett Farve and then Aaron Rodgers? Moss was head and shoulders better than Rice in my opinion.

[JohnC1908]

Originally Posted by Ash

There was more parity in the NFL during Moss' career than Rice's.

Rice's '49er teams were ridiculously stacked. He played with hall of fame/MVP type QBs his entire career. Joe Montana, Steve Young, Rich Gannon. It wasn't just the QBs though. It was the whole package. Roger Craig, Dwight Clark, Terrel Owens, Tim Brown. Jerry was a weapon amongst many weapons his entire career and teams could not afford to focus much resources in defending him. They had to account for everything. Look at Young, that guy was a running threat on top of everything else. Culpepper was okay for a while (made by Moss, in my opinion, look what he did without Moss). Johnson was a game manager type QB, not a deep ball passer, not a high WR usage rate. At the tail end of Moss' prime he got to play with Brady and what happened? Single season TD record. Ya think maybe if Moss got to play with Brady from the start it might have been different? Or maybe, if Moss go to do the equivalent of Rice and played with Brett Farve and then Aaron Rodgers? Moss was head and shoulders better than Rice in my opinion.

Dwight Clark and Rich Gannon...really?

[CHFG8R]

Originally Posted by Ash

There was more parity in the NFL during Moss' career than Rice's.

Rice's '49er teams were ridiculously stacked. He played with hall of fame/MVP type QBs his entire career. Joe Montana, Steve Young, Rich Gannon. It wasn't just the QBs though. It was the whole package. Roger Craig, Dwight Clark, Terrel Owens, Tim Brown. Jerry was a weapon amongst many weapons his entire career and teams could not afford to focus much resources in defending him. They had to account for everything. Look at Young, that guy was a running threat on top of everything else. Culpepper was okay for a while (made by Moss, in my opinion, look what he did without Moss). Johnson was a game manager type QB, not a deep ball passer, not a high WR usage rate. At the tail end of Moss' prime he got to play with Brady and what happened? Single season TD record. Ya think maybe if Moss got to play with Brady from the start it might have been different? Or maybe, if Moss go to do the equivalent of Rice and played with Brett Farve and then Aaron Rodgers? Moss was head and shoulders better than Rice in my opinion.

One could easily make the argument that this meant less touches for Jerry. Also, Moss broke the record with 4 additional games. And please don't try to push that teams did not scheme for Jerry.

[Ash]

Originally Posted by JohnC1908

Dwight Clark and Rich Gannon...really?

Rich Gannon won the MVP of the league. He was no slouch, he also played on many bad teams. I think the proof in this is when Moss had an equivalent QB (Brady) he blew up.

[GatorAvatar]

I would have a million receiving yards too if I played 31 years in the NFL and had two HOF QBs tossing me dimes. Randy Moss is the GOAT.

[GatorAvatar]

Originally Posted by Tebowism0823

Maybe to you but the masses would disagree; and disagree a lot.

Masses are blinded by those three rings courtesy of two HOF QBs. Look at Larry Fitzgerald when he had a QB vs when he doesn't. Moss was great without any notable QBs.

[JohnC1908]

Originally Posted by Ash

Rich Gannon won the MVP of the league. He was no slouch, he also played on many bad teams. I think the proof in this is when Moss had an equivalent QB (Brady) he blew up.

So what? Rich Gannon played on bad teams because he was bad most of his career. I mean Rich Gannon? He's no better than Cunningham, Johnson, or Culpepper. I guess we could argue who is slightly better but there isn't much difference between them.
Who was diverting all the attention from Jerry when he won the Super Bowl with Steve Young? Rice seemed to excel and make others around him better no matter where he was. He seems to be the X factor. Granted, I do think he and Montana are the best QB/WR duo ever. To imply he was lucky to play with Craig and Dwight Clark (I mean c'mon...Dwight Clark) is absurd. They were lucky to play under Walsh and with he and Montana. Since Moss has better measurables that just makes him better...okay. And of course he still has zero Super Bowls and has little to do with the outcome of Sunday's game.

[OaktownGator]

The fact people are even considering Moss in the same breath as Rice is an indictment on the state of football knowledge of those fans.

At the end of the day, it's about winning. Doing what it takes to make yourself better, your team better and to rise to the occasion when your team needs you.

Some people argue that Moss' time with the Patriots is the proof. I argue they are exactly right. With Brady he torched every chitty defense they played.... and completely disappeared in the big games and especially the playoff games.

The Pats won three of the prior four Super Bowls before adding Moss. Then they add Moss and go in the dumper two years in a row in spite of setting a bunch of passing records.

Who gives two chits about setting passing records? It's about winning. A guy that regularly takes plays off, doesn't block and disappears in big games is not a winner, and deserves no part of this conversation.

[GATORQUEDOG]

Originally Posted by GATORAZ

I think Randy was the better player

Agree 100%.
Rice was great, but just like Emmitt, he also benefited from having a GREAT team around him for the better part of his career. The offense that San Fran was running was taylor made for Rice's skillset and having John Taylor on the other side with Joe Montana and Steve Young throwing certainly didn't hurt.

As for pure talent, explosiveness and some of the greatest and most spectacular catches made by a receiver---Moss is/was better than Rice.

[Ash]

At the end of the day, it's about winning.

It's a team game or do you really think Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino? The Cowboys and 49ers were dominant teams for much of the 80s and 90s. Stacked. Fact: Rice played with two hall of fame QBs for the majority of his career. Without those Qbs, his stats dropped. Now, we has older, yes, but they dropped nonetheless. Moss, as an older player, went to the Patriots and dominated immediately.

ut just like Emmitt, he also benefited from having a GREAT team around him for the better part of his career.

Exactly. Who is better? Smith or Sanders? I think, Sanders is obviously the better back. But, he played for Detroit so no rings and no supporting cast.

[GatorAvatar]

Originally Posted by Ash

It's a team game or do you really think Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino? The Cowboys and 49ers were dominant teams for much of the 80s and 90s. Stacked. Fact: Rice played with two hall of fame QBs for the majority of his career. Without those Qbs, his stats dropped. Now, we has older, yes, but they dropped nonetheless. Moss, as an older player, went to the Patriots and dominated immediately.

Exactly. Who is better? Smith or Sanders? I think, Sanders is obviously the better back. But, he played for Detroit so no rings and no supporting cast.

This!

[Minister_of_Information]

When it comes to Rice and his QBs, the question could just as easily be whether he made them. And the same applies to John Taylor etc.

[CHFG8R]

As I said before, holocaust deniers are entitled to their opinions too and if Ash, Avatar and the rest want to stand with the .01%, so be it.

Just like 1935-45, the rest of us know the real truth.

[CHFG8R]

My guess is these assumptions about Moss as GOAT are based on something other than actual witness to their real-life, on-field accomplishments.

[OaktownGator]

Originally Posted by Ash

It's a team game or do you really think Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino? The Cowboys and 49ers were dominant teams for much of the 80s and 90s. Stacked. Fact: Rice played with two hall of fame QBs for the majority of his career. Without those Qbs, his stats dropped. Now, we has older, yes, but they dropped nonetheless. Moss, as an older player, went to the Patriots and dominated immediately.

Exactly. Who is better? Smith or Sanders? I think, Sanders is obviously the better back. But, he played for Detroit so no rings and no supporting cast.

Moss with the Patriots: 4 Playoff games. 12 catches. 142 yards, 1 TD.

Really lit it up. GOAT! GOAT! GOAT!

Or maybe not... Rice beat that all to hell in just one of his Super Bowl performances.

BTW - in years prior to Brady, Culpepper went to three pro bowls and passed well over 3,000 yards four times, including one year over 4700 yards. There was no shortage of passing yards to be had with him. Moss was hardly hurting for someone to throw him the ball.

Next, as far as football being a team game..... YES, YES, YES!

It is a team game. You don't get to just skip out on a huge part of your job - blocking. You don't get to just jog because you're not the primary receiver. That's the kind of cancerous behavior that keeps very good, very talented teams from being great teams. It is the behavior of a loser.

In an earlier post, I listed probably 10 receivers I'd rather have, and in terms of building a winning team, no doubt that's a short list.

[nawlinsgator]

Originally Posted by GatorAvatar

Masses are blinded by those three rings courtesy of two HOF QBs. Look at Larry Fitzgerald when he had a QB vs when he doesn't. Moss was great without any notable QBs.

Your age is showing. There was football before you could watch players highlights on youtube, you know.

[Minister_of_Information]

Is greatness achievement or potential?

[j7]

There are comments in the following article on the subject from corners who faced both Rice and Moss -

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--be...233828619.html

[Minister_of_Information]

Already linked upthread

[j7]

Originally Posted by Minister_of_Information

Already linked upthread

My bad, missed it.