Why the EPA and environmental laws are needed

[gatorman_07732]

ora, I posted this is the pub because it was new here. This has nothing to do with pollution why this dolphin died.

[oragator1]

Originally Posted by gatorman_07732

ora, I posted this is the pub because it was new here. This has nothing to do with pollution why this dolphin died.

The article I linked probably was a bit over the top...but as I said, dolphins go up rivers a estuaries all the time and either get out or don't, so a dolphin dying from this sort of thing is far from unheard of. And they will do a necropsy on the animal apparently to see if they can determine whether there was a underlying cause - as background about 5 years ago a whale swam up the same channel and died, it was so covered in filth his name became "Slushy", but his necropsy was inconclusive as they couldn't find an underlying cause other than it being young. But even if the autopsy says that he died of trauma, or malnutrition or some other cause, not being able to go in the water was a factor in the decision to not attempt an intervention. This quote below is from the man who had to make that decision, and yes there were certainly other factors in their decision as I quote. Was the "water" also a factor in how quickly he succumbed? We might not ever know, but what we do know for sure is that the canal in question is literally a toxic cesspool.

On the risk to the dolphin of injury during capture: The capture process is very stressful to the animal, Mr. DiGiovanni said, and even seriously injured marine mammals will naturally try to escape. In the confines of the narrow canal, he said, “everything that it was going to hit was going to be concrete, and it’s not favorable.” He added, “In many cases where there is a compromised animal and we intervene, they die as soon as we get them on the stretcher.”

On the dangers to the rescuers: Not only is the canal indisputably toxic, Mr. DiGiovanni said, but it was not clear to his staff members exactly what kind of dangers they would face in its waters.

“Is the water dangerous to get on your skin? If someone falls in the water and accidentally swallows some, are they in danger? If we were going to intervene and jump in, we would want to make sure that we had the protective equipment to deal with that scenario — all that takes time as well, which puts us back to our original plan.”

On the possibility of herding the dolphin out to the relatively clean water of New York Harbor: He said that even that minimal intervention would require drawing up a plan and getting clearance from the National Marine Fisheries Service, which again takes time. All too often, Mr. DiGiovanni said, sick animals brought out to sea simply beach somewhere else the next day.

The bottom line was that “the tide-cycle plan doesn’t do harm to the animal or to the people inadvertently at all,” Mr. DiGiovanni said. “That gives us the largest chance of success.”

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...iling-dolphin/

[G8trGr8t]

Many of the older muni's have mixed use sewers where stormwater and rainwater mix together. Entire cities need to be replumbed but people do not want to pay the bill for that. They don't mind paying $150 a month for a couple of smart phones with data plans and another $80 - $100 for premium cable service but ask them to pay $150 for clean running water and sewer service and they come unglued. California has vast areas that go unfarmed every year while they collect crop insurance and food prices go up so that the happy libs in San Fran can get clean cheap water from the mountains rather than have to pay for RO. This shouldn't be a job for the feds, it should be the local water/sewer customers who pay for these clean-ups and EPA taking over and relinquishing them from that responsibility is a bad move

Comments re: land developers spreading cash around to be able to pollute are bs based on my experience. I have been in the business doing permitting and development for 20 plus years in SW Florida and in the USVI and I can tell you that it has never been easy and I have never seen or heard about people able to buy zoning or permits in SW Florida. It may happen in some places but if you have to deal with state or feds, good luck with that. Try getting a permit from Army Corps of Engineers or NMFS or DEP and then come back and tell me how easy it is to sprinkle some cash around and get what you want. I know property owners who bought limerock rich ground decades ago that have land use approval for mining can't get zoning for mining now that some NIMBY's bought close to the area. County is losing cases in court but it takes years and hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees and studies (and lot of wasted tax $$ fighting it) to get the zoning approved.

EPA nutrient loading requirements make development of a small parcel practically impossible while farmers and ranchers continue to pollute unabated. If you want to find the real source of most of the pollution in Florida, look at big ag and big cattle. They get passes while developers are raked over the coals by the state and the feds. Same for water use permits. I have seen so many pumps running flooding empty fields just so the farmer can keep their water allotment while there are watering restrictions for homeowners across the region. No nitrogen fertilizers allowed on yards from May to October while big sugar is backpumping tons of nitrogen laden stormwater runoff into Lake Okechobee against court rulings and yet gubmnt looks the other way. Cattle ranching and big ag are the real threat to water pollution in Florida. That and people unwilling to pay the proper/fair price to protect the resource.

[tegator80]

Originally Posted by chemgator

There's no question that we need an EPA. But more importantly, we need a competent EPA led by competent people. People with chemistry and chemical engineering degrees. Not people who think that salt "disappears" when you add it to water. With incompetent leadership, the EPA devolves into checking paperwork and missing the boat when it comes to problems...

The problem is that humans are humans and we don't keep up with what we are supposed to be responsible for. I would argue (not to hijack the thread) that the problems associated with the housing bubble and Enron was a result of ineffective regulation/enforcement. We see what we are supposed to do to keep things from getting out of hand yet we find a way to screw it up. If we don't understand that we can't just wave our hand and the system is regulated then we have this whiplash system of laissez-faire to oppressive and ineffective regulation.

[ChartsandGrafs]

Originally Posted by tegator80

The problem is that humans are humans and we don't keep up with what we are supposed to be responsible for. I would argue (not to hijack the thread) that the problems associated with the housing bubble and Enron was a result of ineffective regulation/enforcement. We see what we are supposed to do to keep things from getting out of hand yet we find a way to screw it up. If we don't understand that we can't just wave our hand and the system is regulated then we have this whiplash system of laissez-faire to oppressive and ineffective regulation.

I disagree. It's not necessarily a problem of "ineffective" regulation that "screws it up", it's regulatory capture that's the problem. Any regulatory agency you create to solve a problem can just as easily be captured by those you are targeting for regulation. It doesn't matter if it's the SEC, EPA, or any other government regulator. They are all subject to being captured, and once they are, the problem you were trying to solve before you had regulations will be that much worse.

It's a huge mistake to think regulators are just bumbling, incompetent morons, when in reality, the truth is they are working for the bad guys.

[tegator80]

Originally Posted by ChartsandGrafs

I disagree. It's not necessarily a problem of "ineffective" regulation that "screws it up", it's regulatory capture that's the problem. Any regulatory agency you create to solve a problem can just as easily be captured by those you are targeting for regulation. It doesn't matter if it's the SEC, EPA, or any other government regulator. They are all subject to being captured, and once they are, the problem you were trying to solve before you had regulations will be that much worse.

It's a huge mistake to think regulators are just bumbling, incompetent morons, when in reality, the truth is they are working for the bad guys.

I am not ready to go as far as your take. I will say that once you set up a system and don't administer it properly then you allow "friends" to be placed at the top of the food chain to make sure that the people at the tactical levels don't have the resources to do their jobs. But that is part of the assertion that I am making. If it is indeed important then there should be people who are making sure that the foxes aren't put in charge of the hen house. But over time it seems that we allow our priorities to slip.

I always point to Fort Knox as a good example. While it may be mostly symbolic, if you believe that a significant chunk of our financial stability is based on security of our gold reserves then you have to have a system in place that CAN NOT be compromised. There can be NO alternative to make it more business friendly. So I say that as long as we think that regulation is easy and don't give it proper respect then we seem to let our guards down and things get out of hand. JMHO

[oragator1]

Originally Posted by gatorman_07732

ora, I posted this is the pub because it was new here. This has nothing to do with pollution why this dolphin died.

In the end you are correct, the necropsy is back and he/she was definitely one sick dolphin.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...y-reveals.html

Doesn't change much from my original post though.

[g8orbill]

environmental wackos and their faked info

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2013/...lobal-warming/

from the article:

“Temperatures have not risen nearly as much as almost all of the climate models predicted,” Roy Spencer, a climatologist at the University of Alabama at Huntsville, told FoxNews.com.

“Their predictions have largely failed, four times in a row... what that means is that it's time for them to re-evaluate,” Spencer said.